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Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,543,919 times
Reputation: 6253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit
It seems like a region that makes sense if you're in a town in Western MD and look north into PA and south into WV. It might even seem sensible if you compare Baltimore to Wilmington to Philadelphia. It becomes an apparent absurdity if you stand in Ogdensburg, NY looking at the St. Lawrence and Canada beyond, only a short drive from the suburbs of Ottawa, and ask yourself to believe that you're in the same region of the country as the subtropical beaches of Sandbridge in SE Virginia. There is nothing that unites those parts of the country other than that they're American.
Conversely, if you're standing on Long Island, NY or in the valleys of Elmira, NY, Mid Atlantic still makes total sense.
North country is called that for a reason. It's really far north.
In my opinion, any area associated with the Chesapeake Bay is solidly Mid-Atlantic by default. Mid-Atlantic is a term that is interchangeable with areas at the center of the East Coast whether or not the place is Southern or Northern.
Virginia is Mid-Atlantic with Southern Influences. Which are mostly found outside of Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Hampton Roads. Any person that says that the confederacy makes Virginia solidly Southern needs to do some more in depth reading. During the confederacy, Richmond and Virginia were even recognized as different than the rest. Richmond also had strong ties to the Northeast before the confederacy and was pro-union. It was made the capital to sway it toward the Confederacy. Being from Richmond, I can tell you that while Richmond is Southern, it is also very Mid-Atlantic which makes it that much more unique. It has a large proportion of Jewish and Eastern European residents. Its signature foods are Pimento Cheese (A southern staple) as well as the Sailor Sandwich (Native to Richmond Specifically but includes many Northern Ingredients). Richmond also has several neighborhoods with Rowhouses. (Most of which are very similar to Row-homes in Washington D.C.). I have been through the entire south and have done extensive research on southern culture and architecture and I do not remember any city South of Virginia with similar architecture. That may be a mute point to some people but it says a lot about the people who live there. Virginia is a Southern and Mid-Atlantic State, not solidly Southern and definitely not Northern. https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...-of-the-south/ https://richmondmom.com/2013/10/15/r...not-the-south/ https://www.richmond.com/realestate/...017408225.html https://www.richmond.com/arts-entert...c00cbf560.html
Maryland is Mid-Atlantic with both Northern and Southern Influences. I don't think that most people disagree that Maryland is a Mid-Atlantic State. Before it became a Catholic Colony, it was originally a part of Virginia, and shortly after the colony was settled, it became overrun by protestant Virginians. So most people native, to Eastern and Central Maryland are descendants of Virginians who settled in Jamestown. Northern Maryland is more mixed with Philadelphia influence. However, Baltimore is very similar to Richmond in many ways. Baltimores accent is literally a perfect mix between a Richmond accent and a Philadelphia accent. The only difference is that the city did not join the confederacy. However, Maryland would have joined the Confederacy if Lincoln had not arrested their governor. Baltimore and Richmond also eat lots of Blue Crabs and use old bay seasoning which is native to Chesapeake Bay areas.
In conclusion, any area associated with the Chesapeake Bay is Mid-Atlantic based on its settlement patterns, geography and climate, as well as city structure. The fact that the city or state is on the Chesapeake Bay makes them Mid-Atlantic. Any area South of the Chesapeake Bay is southern and any area North of the bay is Northern. Please do not pull up the confederacy as an argument as it shows that you do not know any thing about the area, its history (Richmond and Virginia were over 200 years old when the Confederacy was formed), or its people. The confederacy did influence Virginian Culture but it did not change Virginias Chesapeake and Mid-Atlantic lineage. Virginia was the Birthplace of British American Culture not Southern American Culture. South Carolina is the Birthplace of true Southern Culture.
I'd like an explanation on how Baltimore accent sounds like a mixture of Philly and Richmond. He speak nothing like either place. Baltimore is southern/Mid-Atlantic.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,129 posts, read 7,568,606 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue
I'd like an explanation on how Baltimore accent sounds like a mixture of Philly and Richmond. He speak nothing like either place. Baltimore is southern/Mid-Atlantic.
How about you explain to us what makes a Southern accent, and what makes the Baltimore accent Southern? I've heard your agenda here thread after thread, yet never heard an convincing explanation of the "southern drawl in Baltimore". aka Philly South.
How about you explain to us what makes a Southern accent, and what makes the Baltimore accent Southern? I've heard your agenda here thread after thread, yet never heard an convincing explanation of the "southern drawl in Baltimore". aka Philly South.
You must have me mistaken for one of these other posters on this site.
I don't care what YOU personally believe about the Baltimore accent, which is ironic, because you were one of the people who pointed out that it sounds "country" when we say "dug," or "tew." You even went as far as to post a video in which you can CLEARY tell how different they are.
You apparently seem to be the person with the agenda. If someone actually from Baltimore and/or Philly tell you that they sound nothing alike, stop stressing yourself out trying convince the NATIVES of either city otherwise. I guess maybe you're thinking "well, if I tie Baltimore to DC, then say Baltimore is like Philly, then by default, it'll make DC seem less southern."
No..
Baltimore is a southern city and So is DC. Baltimore doesn't care about Philly for the most part, as I told you before, Philly has copied Baltimore far more than Baltimore has copied Philly. Also, as a melinated person, you're aware that the south is now the culturally dominant region.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,129 posts, read 7,568,606 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue
You must have me mistaken for one of these other posters on this site.
I don't care what YOU personally believe about the Baltimore accent, which is ironic, because you were one of the people who pointed out that it sounds "country" when we say "dug," or "tew." You even went as far as to post a video in which you can CLEARY tell how different they are.
You apparently seem to be the person with the agenda. If someone actually from Baltimore and/or Philly tell you that they sound nothing alike, stop stressing yourself out trying convince the NATIVES of either city otherwise. I guess maybe you're thinking "well, if I tie Baltimore to DC, then say Baltimore is like Philly, then by default, it'll make DC seem less southern."
No..
Baltimore is a southern city and So is DC. Baltimore doesn't care about Philly for the most part, as I told you before, Philly has copied Baltimore far more than Baltimore has copied Philly. Also, as a melinated person, you're aware that the south is now the culturally dominant region.
Again I asked YOU specifically a basic question of, what you think makes an accent Southern, and 2nd to provide specifics of tying in Baltimore's speech to that. You're going off on a tangent about DC. I know what DC is, my question to you is about Baltimore's alleged southern speech.
I've long said that outside of the "tew" and "dug" words that Baltimore speech (at least for blacks) does not strike me as the South, does it have its own unique twang, sure. But I'd never confuse the Baltimore accent with New Orleans, or Atlanta, or North Carolina. I then backed up my point with posting video of a Baltimore vs Philly rap battle in which there were differences in accent, but not to the point of sounding Southern vs Northern, they are regionally similar. You have yet to specify anything and continue to push your agenda without identifying why.
In my opinion, any area associated with the Chesapeake Bay is solidly Mid-Atlantic by default. Mid-Atlantic is a term that is interchangeable with areas at the center of the East Coast whether or not the place is Southern or Northern.
Virginia is Mid-Atlantic with Southern Influences. Which are mostly found outside of Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Hampton Roads. Any person that says that the confederacy makes Virginia solidly Southern needs to do some more in depth reading. During the confederacy, Richmond and Virginia were even recognized as different than the rest. Richmond also had strong ties to the Northeast before the confederacy and was pro-union. It was made the capital to sway it toward the Confederacy. Being from Richmond, I can tell you that while Richmond is Southern, it is also very Mid-Atlantic which makes it that much more unique. It has a large proportion of Jewish and Eastern European residents. Its signature foods are Pimento Cheese (A southern staple) as well as the Sailor Sandwich (Native to Richmond Specifically but includes many Northern Ingredients). Richmond also has several neighborhoods with Rowhouses. (Most of which are very similar to Row-homes in Washington D.C.). I have been through the entire south and have done extensive research on southern culture and architecture and I do not remember any city South of Virginia with similar architecture. That may be a mute point to some people but it says a lot about the people who live there. Virginia is a Southern and Mid-Atlantic State, not solidly Southern and definitely not Northern. https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.co...-of-the-south/ https://richmondmom.com/2013/10/15/r...not-the-south/ https://www.richmond.com/realestate/...017408225.html https://www.richmond.com/arts-entert...c00cbf560.html
Maryland is Mid-Atlantic with both Northern and Southern Influences. I don't think that most people disagree that Maryland is a Mid-Atlantic State. Before it became a Catholic Colony, it was originally a part of Virginia, and shortly after the colony was settled, it became overrun by protestant Virginians. So most people native, to Eastern and Central Maryland are descendants of Virginians who settled in Jamestown. Northern Maryland is more mixed with Philadelphia influence. However, Baltimore is very similar to Richmond in many ways. Baltimores accent is literally a perfect mix between a Richmond accent and a Philadelphia accent. The only difference is that the city did not join the confederacy. However, Maryland would have joined the Confederacy if Lincoln had not arrested their governor. Baltimore and Richmond also eat lots of Blue Crabs and use old bay seasoning which is native to Chesapeake Bay areas.
In conclusion, any area associated with the Chesapeake Bay is Mid-Atlantic based on its settlement patterns, geography and climate, as well as city structure. The fact that the city or state is on the Chesapeake Bay makes them Mid-Atlantic. Any area South of the Chesapeake Bay is southern and any area North of the bay is Northern. Please do not pull up the confederacy as an argument as it shows that you do not know any thing about the area, its history (Richmond and Virginia were over 200 years old when the Confederacy was formed), or its people. The confederacy did influence Virginian Culture but it did not change Virginias Chesapeake and Mid-Atlantic lineage. Virginia was the Birthplace of British American Culture not Southern American Culture. South Carolina is the Birthplace of true Southern Culture.
+10
Listen, just to let you know ahead of time, every point you made regarding Virginia and Richmond is correct, and anybody familiar with urban VA and Richmond will know you're correct, but there's a lot of wannabe geographers that float around these parts who will argue you down about the RVA/VA culture who will swear they can define our culture better than we can...
I've been at it for years---and yes, the most common go-to, by FAR, is "oh it was the capital of the CSA" and in more recent times, "Richmond isn't ripping down the statues". You can bet it all that, that is the biggest reason we are southern today lolol...
I've still yet to meet a single person, transplant or visitor, to Richmond in real life, who thinks it's more southern than anywhere south of Virginia. Its literally never happened, and I've met visitors/transplants who came to Richmond from many, many places...
Modern Richmond clearly has more cultural and economic ties to the Northeast, and historic Richmond had the same. Trust me, man, you aren't the first poster to point this out. Nobody from Richmond denies that it is southern, but nobody in the know considers it closer to anywhere in the South, or refutes its mid-Atlantic commonalities. It's this looney web board full of junior historians and statisticians who create and push a different and false narrative...
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,543,919 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock
+10
Listen, just to let you know ahead of time, every point you made regarding Virginia and Richmond is correct, and anybody familiar with urban VA and Richmond will know you're correct, but there's a lot of wannabe geographers that float around these parts who will argue you down about the RVA/VA culture who will swear they can define our culture better than we can...
I've been at it for years---and yes, the most common go-to, by FAR, is "oh it was the capital of the CSA" and in more recent times, "Richmond isn't ripping down the statues". You can bet it all that, that is the biggest reason we are southern today lolol...
I've still yet to meet a single person, transplant or visitor, to Richmond in real life, who thinks it's more southern than anywhere south of Virginia. Its literally never happened, and I've met visitors/transplants who came to Richmond from many, many places...
Modern Richmond clearly has more cultural and economic ties to the Northeast, and historic Richmond had the same. Trust me, man, you aren't the first poster to point this out. Nobody from Richmond denies that it is southern, but nobody in the know considers it closer to anywhere in the South, or refutes its mid-Atlantic commonalities. It's this looney web board full of junior historians and statisticians who create and push a different and false narrative...
Well you know, they can't accept that any part of Virginia is tied to the northeast because then they'd have to accept that Maryland is simply not a southern state.
Virginia to me is the quintessential east coast state being that it's right smack in the middle of the Eastern Seaboard (I think southern VA is the exact mid point between Northern Maine and South Florida). It has northeastern qualities of heavy emphasis on colonialism, Rowhouses, Urbanization and industrialism while it obviously has southeastern qualities of being a slave state, Bible-Belt, has a Piedmont region, coastal and mountain region like much of the South-Atlantic and the Shedoah Valley has the largest Christian university in the US (Liberty University)
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