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So basically you are saying that the city doesn't have enough jobs, the schools aren't good enough for families (although areas are safe enough for kids), and there aren't enough amenities to make it worth while to live in the city.
1. Well, yes. Of the nearly 2 million jobs in metro Detroit, 77% are 10+ miles outside of downtown. Detroit only extends, at the greatest distance, 15 miles out from downtown. Among other metros with around 1-2 million jobs, Detroit has the least percent of jobs that are concentrated in the city. It's one of the major flaws of being a manufacturing based economy.
2. True. Though like I said, that's pretty irrelevant to me since I don't have kids. But for families that do have kids, it's actually pretty easy for them to just send them to school districts on the other side of town. Metro Detroit is full of school of choice districts, though that does present other challenges.
3. I never said anything about lacking amenities. Detroit has a lot more amenities than the suburbs and the suburbs are entirely boring. But it only takes 15 minutes to drive to Detroit and back. Sure, it'd be more convenient to live near those amenities, but, as I said, that costs entirely more money and I still wouldn't necessarily have a car-free lifestyle if my job is still outside of the city.
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Sorry but my definition of great city isn't a place that has terrible schools, not enough jobs, higher taxes and expensive housing with a high crime rate. Also, I'm not buying that it's more expensive to live in Detroit than the suburbs. I would buy that it isn't as pleasant though. The data tells a story of Detroit being cheaper than the suburbs.
According to City Data, it has a lower than average cost of living:
Mar. 2016 cost of living index in Detroit: 87.2 (less than average, U.S. average is 100)
Cheaper than the suburbs:
Mar. 2016 cost of living index in Livonia: 89.5 (less than average, U.S. average is 100)
Mar. 2016 cost of living index in Troy: 90.4 (less than average, U.S. average is 100)
Mar. 2016 cost of living index in Novi: 91.2 (less than average, U.S. average is 100)
Mar. 2016 cost of living index in Rochester: 90.7 (less than average, U.S. average is 100)
Mar. 2016 cost of living index in Warren: 89.1 (less than average, U.S. average is 100)
Mar. 2016 cost of living index in Romulus: 87.9 (less than average, U.S. average is 100)
Keyword being "average". Detroit, on average, has homes that are of lesser quality than in most suburbs. Most homes in Detroit are smaller, older, and in many cases, have had very minimal maintenance over the years. However, for the neighborhoods with housing that's equivalent to housing in the suburbs, it's usually more expensive.
For example:
Detroit Property: 4 Beds, 2.5 Baths, 2800 sq ft, $288K. Property Taxes ~ $3,500-$4,500 a year.
Royal Oak Property: 4 Beds, 2 baths, 1500 sq ft, $270K. Property Taxes ~ $2,600-$3,000 a year
Granted, the one in Royal Oak isn't brick (and slightly smaller) which otherwise would have made it more expensive, but over time, the Detroit property would still more expensive to live in.
Even for cheaper starter homes, this suburban property has twice the acreage as this home in Detroit for only a 10,000 difference (and of course cheaper taxes).
Of course, if I was really desperate to live in the city, I could just compromise and buy a house like this and save a whole ton of money. But when I actually did live in Detroit growing up, my childhood home was actually that crappy (plus with 7 other people) and I have no desire to return to those living conditions.
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Before someone accuses me of being a jerk who has outdated ideas about Detroit, I know it is improving, but this idea that Detroit is just like any other city, but you know, there's a few problems-- well that is delusional. And I think it is reflected in the fact that most of the boosters do not live in the city.
So yes, it is improving, but there is a very serious resistance to moving there, as the data shows. And it's not because it's more expensive.
Well, it's true that Detroit isn't necessarily more expensive to live in, but it's more expensive to maintain my same standard of living if I choose to live there.
Most of the people moving to Detroit are highly paid young professionals. Not too different from what's going on in other cities. But I myself am not a highly paid young professional. I wouldn't be able to afford the neighborhood I'd want to live in.
Also, a loss of 3,000 people isn't really a whole lot compared to 30,000 lost during the years of the the Great Recession. 3,000 is easily within the margin of error for census estimates.
danielj72 is, I believe, a native Detroiter. I lived there for 14 years and have, in my own way, a slight fondness for the place. I would love to see Detroit prosper once more, and I think it actually could one day. Who knows? Heck, in 50 years, Detroit could become one of the most thriving, successful cities in the US.
But danielj is absolutely right. Yes, there has been progress in the city of Detroit, but I've only been gone from it for 6 years, and I know it was going to need a LOT more time than that to become "booming." If it happens, it will take decades.
danielj72 never lived in Detroit. I think that poster is from the westside of the state.
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Originally Posted by animatedmartian
1. Well, yes. Of the nearly 2 million jobs in metro Detroit, 77% are 10+ miles outside of downtown. Detroit only extends, at the greatest distance, 15 miles out from downtown. Among other metros with around 1-2 million jobs, Detroit has the least percent of jobs that are concentrated in the city. It's one of the major flaws of being a manufacturing based economy.
2. True. Though like I said, that's pretty irrelevant to me since I don't have kids. But for families that do have kids, it's actually pretty easy for them to just send them to school districts on the other side of town. Metro Detroit is full of school of choice districts, though that does present other challenges.
3. I never said anything about lacking amenities. Detroit has a lot more amenities than the suburbs and the suburbs are entirely boring. But it only takes 15 minutes to drive to Detroit and back. Sure, it'd be more convenient to live near those amenities, but, as I said, that costs entirely more money and I still wouldn't necessarily have a car-free lifestyle if my job is still outside of the city.
Keyword being "average". Detroit, on average, has homes that are of lesser quality than in most suburbs. Most homes in Detroit are smaller, older, and in many cases, have had very minimal maintenance over the years. However, for the neighborhoods with housing that's equivalent to housing in the suburbs, it's usually more expensive.
For example:
Detroit Property: 4 Beds, 2.5 Baths, 2800 sq ft, $288K. Property Taxes ~ $3,500-$4,500 a year.
Royal Oak Property: 4 Beds, 2 baths, 1500 sq ft, $270K. Property Taxes ~ $2,600-$3,000 a year
Granted, the one in Royal Oak isn't brick (and slightly smaller) which otherwise would have made it more expensive, but over time, the Detroit property would still more expensive to live in.
Even for cheaper starter homes, this suburban property has twice the acreage as this home in Detroit for only a 10,000 difference (and of course cheaper taxes).
Of course, if I was really desperate to live in the city, I could just compromise and buy a house like this and save a whole ton of money. But when I actually did live in Detroit growing up, my childhood home was actually that crappy (plus with 7 other people) and I have no desire to return to those living conditions.
Well, it's true that Detroit isn't necessarily more expensive to live in, but it's more expensive to maintain my same standard of living if I choose to live there.
Most of the people moving to Detroit are highly paid young professionals. Not too different from what's going on in other cities. But I myself am not a highly paid young professional. I wouldn't be able to afford the neighborhood I'd want to live in.
Also, a loss of 3,000 people isn't really a whole lot compared to 30,000 lost during the years of the the Great Recession. 3,000 is easily within the margin of error for census estimates.
I don't think that poster really knows anything about Detroit to really understand what your talking about. He doesn't understand that you can't compare "average" home prices in Detroit to Novi, Rochester Hills, ect because unlike the burbs many of the homes for sale are not in good condition which of course has a huge impact on home sales as well as many other things.
That's all non-sense, the whites left because of the crime and jobs leaving, not because a bunch of people with different skin pigmentation moved there. The auto industry left at a time when people were buying american made trucks and SUVs at a ridiculous clip; we've always made the best large vehicles in the world. The unions and democrats played a MAJOR part in driving out the auto industry. Capital will go where its wanted, it will leave/avoid places which are hostile to it. Democrats and unions are hostile towards capital/business. Same thing is happening in CT, businesses are leaving in droves. **** Detroit had a democrat mayor who was running a drug and prostitution ring out of the mayors mansion! No business is going to stay in that environment. Since conservatives have taken over the state government and driven out the unions there's been a major revitalization of Michigan/Detroit.
The conservatives have done nothing for Flint. You are butt deep in partisanship dude.
Keyword being "average". Detroit, on average, has homes that are of lesser quality than in most suburbs. Most homes in Detroit are smaller, older, and in many cases, have had very minimal maintenance over the years. However, for the neighborhoods with housing that's equivalent to housing in the suburbs, it's usually more expensive.
For example:
Detroit Property: 4 Beds, 2.5 Baths, 2800 sq ft, $288K. Property Taxes ~ $3,500-$4,500 a year.
Royal Oak Property: 4 Beds, 2 baths, 1500 sq ft, $270K. Property Taxes ~ $2,600-$3,000 a year
Granted, the one in Royal Oak isn't brick (and slightly smaller) which otherwise would have made it more expensive, but over time, the Detroit property would still more expensive to live in.
I will agree that homes in the suburbs are maintained much better than those within the city, and are more move in ready. Quality is questionable since Detroit has a lot of solidly built homes. They were just poorly maintained. Those are two completely different things, at least in my opinion.
However, it is almost always cheaper to buy within the city of Detroit than its suburbs. Those two houses you linked are not comparable. One is not slightly smaller. It is almost HALF the size. There is a huge difference between 2800 square feet and 1500 square feet. HUGE.
The only time when the suburbs are cheaper (even long-term with higher taxes and insurance) is when you are looking at lesser quality suburbs, a home in disrepair in any suburb, or when comparing downtown/midtown properties. Even with the rebound home prices have seen, homes in Indian Village, Boston-Edison, Joseph Berry, Palmer Woods, etc... are a STEAL.
Was in Detroit for the last week and half for the first time in 10 years. Nowhere is the 'rebirth' hype-myth bigger or more false than Detroit.
I guess a question would be whether Detroit has "bottomed out" within the last 10 years and has since begun a rebound, or is it still on the decline. Looking at a 10 year (or longer) window, you may have missed the worst, but may not have yet seen a recovery that brings the city beyond where it was when you last visited.
In your opinion are the changes you did see too overstated, too localized to represent a "rebirth", overwhelmed by concurrent decline, or are they just lipstick on a pig and nothing has really changed?
Im sorry but I just have to speak up on something some of you keep repeating .
Im not from Detroit or Michigan so I dont pretend to know the exact details which lead to its downfall(including Flint).
What I do know that the Federal and state governments should not be let off the hook.
Simply saying Flint is and embarrassment to the state when it should be the state that should be embarrassed.
Michigan is no different than New Jersey in that they have allowed these cities to become what they are. People in this country are real quick to separate themselves but how can you live within 20 min or more of a place and not expect these problems to spread or diminish the image of the whole state?
If a family member falls on hard times,I will be there to help.If I had a brother who was a crackhead,do you not think people would wander if I have issues too?
The issues of cities failing like this is not one that we should be so quick to separate oursselves from as this affects our whole countries reputation.Its an American problem and we all should be embarrassed.
I find it appalling, that so many on this site, seem to revel in the problems that Detroit has encountered. Kind of a "kick 'em when they're down" mentality, prevails here. Not just Detroit, but any city experiencing a downturn, in any capacity. It's called bullying, plain and simple. The Midwest and South are at the receiving end of the stick, from some posters. By virtue of choosing to live in the middle, as opposed to the coasts, you're somehow, less than. Well, not really (of course), but there is a lot of effort by some, to try to paint you that way. Fortunately, it's usually seen for what it is.
I wish for Detroit, and for any possible "Next Detroit", a rebound. These things don't happen quickly, people, it's a process. The title of this thread, brought out some "pouncers"....an opportunity to degrade, sadly, is always relished (by some).
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