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You're wrong. I know you love defending your position no matter how disproven it becomes, so I'm only going to answer you once on this subject. I simply do not have the energy to argue with you over and over and over.
As stated by another, the French influence is not anywhere near exclusive to northern Maine. Further, there are equally and far starker differences in culture in upstate NY alone than in all of northern New England.
In fact one of the starker differences between Vermont and the rest of northern NE is because of New Yorkers moving there in droves, especially from the Hudson region.
P.S. Good job totally ignoring the majority and point of the post you responded to, btw.
I spent a summer in Potsdam. It's a "We sell Poutine too" influence not "French is our first language" influence like in Northern Maine. For example Spanish is still the 2nd most spoken language in St Lawrence County, NY and the state of Maine as a whole has a French speaking proportion about 5x larger. And some Northern Maine Counties are close to 20% Francophone.
I have also lived in Rochester and the Susquehanna Valley so I know what I am talking about.
I spent a summer in Potsdam. It's a "We sell Poutine too" influence not "French is our first language" influence like in Northern Maine. For example Spanish is still the 2nd most spoken language in St Lawrence County, NY and the state of Maine as a whole has a French speaking proportion about 5x larger. And some Northern Maine Counties are close to 20% Francophone.
I have also lived in Rochester and the Susquehanna Valley so I know what I am talking about.
However, the State of New York has a larger French-American population then Maine - 834,540 in New York which is more than twice Maine's 347,510. What is remarkable about Maine is that 347,510 is 25% of Maine's total population.
The French moved into northern New York State similar to the way they moved into the New England states. Did you honestly believe that French-Canadians care whether New York is part of New England or not? The Adirondacks in particular are on Montreal's doorstep.
In my experience, the rural parts of New England feel much more homogeneous (culturally and in terms of the types of settlements) than rural NY or Pennsylvania. Hard to describe, but there's more complexity to understanding the Mid-Atlantic and its blend of micro-cultures.
The Mid-Atlantic generally attracted a broader cross-section of people historically, which therefore led to a wide array of different types of communities (whether industrial/mining towns to farming communities to small towns with more of a white-collar/service economy bent).
One thing I always found interesting about Pennsylvania is that besides the big Philadelphia and Pittsburgh metros, there are a number of distinct small/mid sized cities and large towns scattered around the state, each with their own history and culture.
There are other Northeast states like that but none as interesting to me as Pennsylvania. New York has the small/ mid sized cities but on the map New York tends to be more boring then Pennsylvania because so many of the cities are in a straight line from Albany (along the Erie Canal route). On a smaller scale so do Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maryland and New Jersey, although many of the cities are at first harder to see because they are sometimes lost in a sea of suburban/exurban sprawl in those states. But they are still there all the same.
However, the State of New York has a larger French-American population then Maine - 834,540 in New York which is more than twice Maine's 347,510. What is remarkable about Maine is that 347,510 is 25% of Maine's total population.
The French moved into northern New York State similar to the way they moved into the New England states. Did you honestly believe that French-Canadians care whether New York is part of New England or not? The Adirondacks in particular are on Montreal's doorstep.
NYS is 16x the size of Maine. Boston has a larger African American population than any city in Louisiana, Mississippi, or Alabama but black culture is not more prominent in Boston than the Deep South that's a monumentally stupid assertion.
NYS is 16x the size of Maine. Boston has a larger African American population than any city in Louisiana, Mississippi, or Alabama but black culture is not more prominent in Boston than the Deep South that's a monumentally stupid assertion.
I think the point that is being made is that given that there are select parts of the state with that cultural influence, those areas have a significant portion of said people and that it isn’t exclusive to just sparsely populated northern Maine. There’s also Counties such as Clinton and Franklin that literally touch Quebec as well in that area of the state and get French speakers from that province, as well as some that speak French at home.
I think the point that is being made is that given that there are select parts of the state with that cultural influence, those areas have a significant portion of said people and that it isn’t exclusive to just sparsely populated northern Maine. There’s also Counties such as Clinton and Franklin that literally touch Quebec as well in that area of the state and get French speakers from that province, as well as some that speak French at home.
Yes but the scale is very different, from Northern NH through Downeast Maine the French Speaking portion of the population is 15-20% in the Border counties even in St Lawrence County, NY on the Quebec Border is 1%, even Clinton County is under 3% French Speaking.
In general, I'd say that while Northern New England does have a somewhat homogeneous culture, the "interior Northeast" (which I'm guessing by this definition would be restricted to Upstate NY and PA minus SEPA) does not.
In general, Upstate NY and much of the "rest of PA" are much, much more similar to "Boswash" than northern New England is. In New York, for example, all of the sizable cities - and many of the smaller cities - have fairly sizable black and Latino communities. The Latino communities are for the most part the same demographics you see a lot of in NYC - lots of Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, not so many Mexicans. Latinos with NYC origins have been moving into smaller eastern PA cities like Allentown, Reading, Lancaster, and York for a few decades as well. Harrisburg has a large black population, as does Albany. Rural Central/Western Pennsylvania though (outside of Pittsburgh and Erie) is still pretty lily-white.
Culturally speaking there are no easy divisions however. As was noted, the "North Country" portion of Upstate NY is essentially part of New England in terms of culture. All of the major cities in Upstate NY which were located along the Erie Canal were settled by New England Yankees originally. Somewhere like Buffalo, Rochester, or Syracuse looks a hell of a lot like Bridgeport, CT in terms of its built form. The southern tier of New York is a bit of a transition area, but zones just across the border in PA (including Erie, the "northern tier" and the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area) were also settled by a lot of Yankees originally, and have an accent very different from areas further south. The rest of rural PA below this area is quite different in terms of culture, accent, historic housing stock, etc. There are many parts of rural SWPA where someone who grew up in New England would think people had a southern accent.
Yes but the scale is very different, from Northern NH through Downeast Maine the French Speaking portion of the population is 15-20% in the Border counties even in St Lawrence County, NY on the Quebec Border is 1%, even Clinton County is under 3% French Speaking.
I see that Anscroggin and Arostook counties in ME come in at about 14-16% and 22% French speakers and Coos County in NH comes in at around 16-17%, with Orleans County VT at around 10-11%. The last 2 counties are quite small and the ME counties are about 170,000 people combined. I believe that Franklin County and Clinton County are around 3%. Same with Essex County NY. New York Other Indo-European Languages Spoken at Home Population Percentage County Rank Based on ACS 2010-2014 data
I see that Anscroggin and Arostook counties in ME come in at about 14-16% and 22% French speakers and Coos County in NH comes in at around 16-17%, with Orleans County VT at around 10-11%. The last 2 counties are quite small and the ME counties are about 170,000 people combined. I believe that Franklin County and Clinton County are around 3%. Same with Essex County NY. New York Other Indo-European Languages Spoken at Home Population Percentage County Rank Based on ACS 2010-2014 data
So, there is still a French/French-Canadian cultural influence in that part of NY.
Northern New England only has a total population of about 2 million. So having a total of ~200,000 significant Francophone areas is pretty big for the region.
Also the distinction between coastal and inland Northern New England is probably bigger than any single cultural difference in the interior Mid Atlantic.
Also the distinction between coastal and inland Northern New England is probably bigger than any single cultural difference in the interior Mid Atlantic.
I'm not sure I'd say this honestly. I went to college in Western Massachusetts, which (minus the Springfield area) isn't that different at all from Vermont. There are plenty of more rural corners of Connecticut and even Rhode Island which aren't really that different either. It's more whether the area is urbanized or not, and the fact that Vermont/New Hampshire/Maine essentially have no urban areas.
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