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Here in Phoenix 50% of all workers make less than $17/hr. That is the median wage for the metro. Phoenix is the economic hub of Arizona by the way. Good luck getting a decent paying job in the Arizona boonies or even Tucson. You'd be lucky to even find a minimum wage job.
You think the 17/hr wage can take care of the COL around here? It doesn't. So who is taking it on? Those from the East or West Coast like yourself who built up some kind of savings with higher wages and then bringing it here, displacing the locals. Some of us do have the jobs that can handle these rents but believe me, it's not the majority of us.
A development was just built in Tempe that is advertising 2.2k/month on an 800 square foot 1-bedroom apartment. Most new developments are 400k or greater on SFHs whether in the exurbs or 500k+ in town. This is where all the Arizona jobs are. Tucson may have a few but, they're tough to find.
So the boonies are cheap but, if you get a job in Phoenix, you are probably looking at a 2 hour one-way commute. Four hours a day wasted in the car sitting in traffic.
One thing to note about the Arizona boonies if you are not in the Active Management Area (AMA) under the Arizona Department of Water Resources, the odds are against you in having a water supply. Might have to dig a few hundred feet for the well or even worse have to truck it in. This isn't uncommon on the reservations or the boonies. The land out here is cheap for a reason in the sticks: no water supply.
Sure, NJ has cheaper places than CA like Newark and Trenton.
Those 2 aren't cheaper than Fresno, Bakersfield, the Inland Empire or in some cases even Sacramento. Speaking of which, there is affordability in those areas. No one is forcing you to live near the coast or move out of state altogether.
I've considered the west, but the prices are too high in relation to the wages. That seems to be a problem everywhere, but even more exxagerated out there. Arizona had some reasonable prices, but that heat....
I'd rather travel than sit around looking at my expensive four walls.
You may have noticed that prices tend to go up rather than down -- not just in the west. It will cost more to live high on the hog than in a standard lifestyle no matter where you are. The western terrain, water availability, and available land in general can be factors in costs. When I moved to New Mexico (near Albuquerque) I was shocked by land prices but then was reminded that the place is surrounded by a 11,000 foot mountain, three Indian pueblo reservations and an unforgiving desert. I eventually found a nice existing house and small acreage for under $250k. I know of .5 acre building lots going for $12k but the new owner has to put in a well and septic system which will double the cost, maybe more. I'd buy two lots if I was going to build just to preserve some space. Wooded lots are somewhat affordable in the east mountains but I'm skittish about forest fires and the commute. The problem here is that builders are building homes that are not affordable to the majority of buyers. They often seem to be fishing for the California dollars and, sure enough, someone will cash-in out in California and pay a ridiculous amount for a house, and that tends to drive up prices.
I looked at buying in Colorado near Grand Junction and the prices seemed a bit higher but not to a tremendous degree. My guess is that places like Tucson and Las Cruces would have some affordable places if a buyer did some research. That's probably true of other places across the west but nobody is giving land away.
I've considered the west, but the prices are too high in relation to the wages. That seems to be a problem everywhere, but even more exxagerated out there. Arizona had some reasonable prices, but that heat....
I'd rather travel than sit around looking at my expensive four walls.
Prickly Pear's comment (two comments above yours) said that the West "coastal" states are more expensive, but their wages are good enough to afford the cost of living if you have the right job for it. Arizona probably has too many small waged jobs.
Here in Phoenix 50% of all workers make less than $17/hr. That is the median wage for the metro. Phoenix is the economic hub of Arizona by the way. Good luck getting a decent paying job in the Arizona boonies or even Tucson. You'd be lucky to even find a minimum wage job.
You think the 17/hr wage can take care of the COL around here? It doesn't. So who is taking it on? Those from the East or West Coast like yourself who built up some kind of savings with higher wages and then bringing it here, displacing the locals. Some of us do have the jobs that can handle these rents but believe me, it's not the majority of us.
A development was just built in Tempe that is advertising 2.2k/month on an 800 square foot 1-bedroom apartment. Most new developments are 400k or greater on SFHs whether in the exurbs or 500k+ in town. This is where all the Arizona jobs are. Tucson may have a few but, they're tough to find.
So the boonies are cheap but, if you get a job in Phoenix, you are probably looking at a 2 hour one-way commute. Four hours a day wasted in the car sitting in traffic.
One thing to note about the Arizona boonies if you are not in the Active Management Area (AMA) under the Arizona Department of Water Resources, the odds are against you in having a water supply. Might have to dig a few hundred feet for the well or even worse have to truck it in. This isn't uncommon on the reservations or the boonies. The land out here is cheap for a reason in the sticks: no water supply.
Wow, Arizona must suck. I heard bad things about Arizona in terms of the money in the state and the politics, but otherwise the scenery and the non-extreme heat areas are what make Arizona great. Of course, you would need money for all of that too.
I'm from Tennessee, but have lived in six states since 2010, and only one of those west of the Mississippi. I've had numerous peers from high school and college that relocated to the Mountain West and a few to California. These were mostly hardcore outdoors people or people with top-end jobs.
Wow, Arizona must suck. I heard bad things about Arizona in terms of the money in the state and the politics, but otherwise the scenery and the non-extreme heat areas are what make Arizona great. Of course, you would need money for all of that too.
Arizona is an awesome place. But it does have a higher price tag. Arizona has a lot of cons as well, nearly all of them I mentioned in my post.
The truth is the West has little available land (see: water) and people want their Western cities to look like Wisconsin back home and as a result the prices skyrocket. For the amount of people trying to live here, suburbs with yards simply do not work. Unless you have the wallet for it. And let's face it, the majority of us don't, even those of us in the traditional middle class.
The water isn't a joke either. I've heard of stories for 300+ feet to dig to reach the aquifer for a well, which is why the land won't sell. This happens in Idaho too, not just the desert. And Phoenix being sprawled is arguably the biggest reason we have water issues, it has nothing to do with the amount of people living here. We just have a large water infrastructure to pay for with little people to use it. We are looking at tax hikes to take care of adding more pipes in North Phoenix.
Arizona's COL is kinda hidden. We have low property taxes, and low housing costs up front, but its not uncommon for electric bills to be 500+ a month. They don't mention that though on Zillow.
Exactly. Some places out west have lower than average wages paired with a high cost of living.
This is pretty much the rule rather than the exception these days, especially here in Washington.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
Arizona is an awesome place. But it does have a higher price tag. Arizona has a lot of cons as well, nearly all of them I mentioned in my post.
The truth is the West has little available land (see: water) and people want their Western cities to look like Wisconsin back home and as a result the prices skyrocket. For the amount of people trying to live here, suburbs with yards simply do not work. Unless you have the wallet for it. And let's face it, the majority of us don't, even those of us in the traditional middle class.
The water isn't a joke either. I've heard of stories for 300+ feet to dig to reach the aquifer for a well, which is why the land won't sell. This happens in Idaho too, not just the desert. And Phoenix being sprawled is arguably the biggest reason we have water issues, it has nothing to do with the amount of people living here. We just have a large water infrastructure to pay for with little people to use it. We are looking at tax hikes to take care of adding more pipes in North Phoenix.
Arizona's COL is kinda hidden. We have low property taxes, and low housing costs up front, but its not uncommon for electric bills to be 500+ a month. They don't mention that though on Zillow.
I know of a guy in Washington who drilled 1,000 feet @$45 a foot and never got a drop of water. He ended up going bankrupt over the whole mess. And the state is putting severe restrictions on new wells and the amount of water used.
To the OP, one thing to keep in mind is the size of the western states. A cheap place might look fairly close to civilization that you could commute from, when in reality its not. Just to give you an idea, Washington is the smallest state west of Oklahoma, but is still more than 8 times bigger than New Jersey.
I know of a guy in Washington who drilled 1,000 feet @$45 a foot and never got a drop of water. He ended up going bankrupt over the whole mess. And the state is putting severe restrictions on new wells and the amount of water used.
To the OP, one thing to keep in mind is the size of the western states. A cheap place might look fairly close to civilization that you could commute from, when in reality its not. Just to give you an idea, Washington is the smallest state west of Oklahoma, but is still more than 8 times bigger than New Jersey.
Wow! I have never heard of anything that extreme but I can't say that I'm surprised.
Here in Arizona if you are outside the AMA water is basically a free for all and completely unregulated, as a result aquifers can completely dry up because of your neighbors with basically no punishment onto them. It's an extremely big risk and if you plan on living here for the long term buying in the AMA is extremely important. Not sure how Washington handles their water. Arizona has good water policies on the books but, they are rarely enforced. Arizona's sustainability will suffer the consequences for short-term profitability of master planned communities.
--
Good point about the size of states by the way:
3. California
4. Montana
5. New Mexico
6. Arizona
7. Nevada
8. Colorado
9. Oregon
10. Wyoming
13. Utah
14. Idaho
18. Washington
2 Washingtons can fit into 1 Montana. 16 New Jersey's in 1 Montana. 13 New Jerseys can fit into 1 Arizona.
Fun fact: if New Mexico and Arizona combined (they almost did), they'd still be smaller than Texas, by 2 Massachusetts.
The Phoenix metropolitan and commuting area spans about the state of Connecticut. And has 1 million more people than Connecticut. So it's worth knowing if you'd be willing to cross Connecticut or even half of Connecticut daily for a job.
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I have never heard of anything that extreme but I can't say that I'm surprised.
