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The northern states were entirely more powerful and way more populated. Were the northern armies somehow strangely worn thin, there was far more than enough to replenish, unlike the south. Do you see where Im coming from?
And no, the Union army did not rely entirely nor heavily on Irish immigrants, they made up only a small percentage of the Union army. Same goes for the south, there were a few Georgian Irish regiments as well. What the Union army did was set up recruitment areas in NYC. This was a brilliant move as many Irish that were fresh off the boat were guaranteed pay, food and shelter (albeit at a risky cost). Many took the bait, many didnt.
As far as the "smashing" goes, you need to look later on in the war. The south was systematically dismantled and picked apart. General Pickett's division was smashed, a desperate last gasp of air from a battered Confederate army at Gettysburg. Sherman captured Atlanta and laid the city in ruins and began his controversial and infamous "march to the sea". Charleston was annihilated, as well as many, many other cities along the way. Blockades of ports cut off food and other supplies, the south was hurting, and in a bad way. Id consider that pretty hardcore. And all the while these events were happening, northern cities continued to grow at astonishing rates, and industry was the same story. Yes, I firmly believe the north fought the war with one hand tied behind its back. Should anything bad have happened, there were seemingly endless replenishments awaiting. The south did not have such luxuries.
Well I think we agree that the North had a huge industrial/population advantage. That fact is obvious, so the longer the longer the war lasted the more chance the North had of winning. That's one reason most of the Southern victories occured in the first half. Another reason is that the Northern generals plain sucked until Grant.
Of course Sherman marched thru the South, terrorizing and murdering left and right, but that was after the point when a Northern win was inevitable. That ability to replenish their troops with a large population and immigrants was a great long-term weapon which won the war for them. The fact is that the Southerners outperformed their Northern counterparts in most battles but they didn't have any replacements.
The point I'm trying to make is that in the first half of the war the South was quite close to winning. You're thinking of "winning" as defeating the North head-on with both sides fighting at %100. That's not what I was saying. At the beginning of the war, Lee and Stonewall were destroying Northern armies and a couple more key victories (Antietam) and England or France might have actually joined in. Also, it's easier to fight for independence of your homeland than it is to put it down.
Don't mistake me for some kind of fanatic though lol. I'm American first, southerner second.
Personally I think that the US should form into about 6 different countries:
PACIFIC:
California
Oregon
Washington
MOUNTAIN:
Nevada
Arizona
Utah
Idaho
New Mexico
Colorado
Wyoming
Montana
LONE STAR:
Texas
Oklahoma
MIDWEST:
Kansas
Nebraska
South Dakota
North Dakota
Missouri
Iowa
Minnesota
Illinois
Wisconsin
Indiana
Michigan
Ohio
SOUTH
Louisiana
Arkansas
Mississippi
Kentucky
Tennessee
Alabama
Georgia
South Carolina
North Carolina
Virginia
West Virginia
NORTHEAST
DC
Maryland
Delaware
Pennsylvania
New Jersey
New York
Connecticut
Rhode Island
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Vermont
Maine
Then Alaska, Hawaii, and Florida should go independent.
I'm all for this, except I think Florida and California should both be cut off and sold to the highest bidders. We could float them over to the new buyer.
I'd move to Mountain Country.
oh no you dont.
Your not going to ruin us and then run off and create your own country-now you are going to stay and help us fix the mess your son George W Bush created and then we'll talk about succession. Until then, oh HELL no.
LOL
My Friend, Bush is a proud son of Connecticut...I wish he'd go back there when his reign of destruction for America has ended.
I remember my old principal at Hendrix Drive, Mr.Mooney told me that oatmeal was a Northern thing and grits were Southern. He was from upstate New York and told said that he never had grits until he moved to Atlanta. Is it just me or does oatmeal look and have the texture of vomit? I'll take grits anyday.
Man, the only oatmeal I eat is Strawberries and Cream. I do not care for the rest of it. Give me grits with either butter or salt and pepper.
If there's going to be another civil war, I doubt the combatants would be divided by political boundaries this time, but racial/ethnic ones instead... so I'd imagine every state would have people within it's borders who would make up the Confederates.
As I have been reminded by those that live in Charlestown, NC, "Civil War? there wasn't ANYTHING civil about it. That was the War of Northern Aggression."
It would be interesting if the states did succeed, how would they survive without government money?
As I have been reminded by those that live in Charlestown, NC, "Civil War? there wasn't ANYTHING civil about it. That was the War of Northern Aggression."
It would be interesting if the states did succeed, how would they survive without government money?
I do believe "Charlestown" is located in South Carolina, not NC.
As far as the "smashing" goes, you need to look later on in the war. The south was systematically dismantled and picked apart. General Pickett's division was smashed, a desperate last gasp of air from a battered Confederate army at Gettysburg.
Steve-O? Is that you...my old best enemy and worthy antagonist of the old "Confederate Flag" thread? To wit:
I KNEW neither of us could stay out of something like this for long, so here is my return volley as to what you say about the South being "smashed."
No, Steve, even by your own examples, nothing fits the criteria for being "smashed." The Confederacy was eventually OVERWHELMED by far superior northern resources and manpower, but not smashed by any means...a term which implies a crushing almost immediate defeat.
On the contrary, the personification/analogy that comes to my mind at least when thinking on it is that of a fellow (the Southerner) who is ganged up on by five other fellows. He whips the first one, and the second one, finally, then has a harder time with the third, and by the fourth he is worn out and can barely lift his arms to ward off the blows, much less launch any of his own. The fifth finally whips him!
In fact (and I am trying to find the exact quote) Gen. Grant once said himself that, man for man, the Confederates were much better fighters and soldiers than the yankees. That is not to say the northern troops weren't brave and dedicated men, but only that the "Southern way of life" (rural, agricultural, growing up hunting and riding horses and with guns) gave a great advantage to the South in terms of good generals and farm boys who could fight like hell.
So far as Pickett's Charge (which actually consisted of more than Picketts division) goes, it wasn't "smashed" either. It was shot to pieces because of an exposed advance over a mile of open ground, but that was arguably a mistake on the part of General Lee to have ever ordered the charge. In any event though, prior to that, the Confederate Army was hardly "battered". On the contrary, the Army of Northern Virginia had pretty much kicked the crap out of every Union army that could be thrown at it.
OK...enough for now. Time to start some Southern fried chicken!
Last edited by TexasReb; 04-12-2008 at 09:45 AM..
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To wit: