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I think too much gets made of where Texas should or shouldnt be. Is it southern? Is it not? The honestly answer is that its pretty ridiculous to put the entire state into one region as big as it is. El Paso has more in common with Phoenix than it does with Houston and Dallas has more in common with Kansas than it does with Brownsville. The large Hispanic populations in all the above are the exception.
The common consensus seems to be: Mexican = Southwest and Black = Southern. Its true that demographically those are the dominant groups in each region, but just because a city has a large number of those groups doesnt mean thats where they belong culturally. It can be one element but far from the whole picture. Look at places like Chicago and Detroit.
I live in Houston and it feels unequivocally Southern to me. Not because of the demographics, but the natural surroundings. It swampy and surrounded by pine forests. Houston does have a very large and prominent black community which does add to that. Dallas honestly feels significantly less Southern. It reminds me much more of the Great Plains, but there still are Southern elements to Dallas like its large black community. Austin and San Antonio feel far more Southwestern than Southern to me. I really dont see either of them as Southern at all.
My honest opinion is that Texas is its own region. However for the sake of the OP and what they are trying to accomplish, if were trying to group Texas with other states I would have them in a group with those we border: LA, OK, AR, and NM.
I agree with this. East Texas is definitely Southern, West Texas is definitely Southwestern. South Texas is Hispanic / Tejano more than anything else. North Texas and Oklahoma are a blend of southern, western, and great plains.
Ultimately it's a border region. If you are coloring in a map you should probably just make it a gradient.
Texas is not West. El Paso perhaps but the "TX Triangle" where most people live doesnt look or feel western at all.
Cattle Ranches,Rodeos, Massuve Mexican population, relatively dry climate away from the immediate coast, that’s all pretty western.
The West is kind of like the North the West Coast is rather distinct from the inland west like the Great Lakes are distinct from the east coast. But both are western like both are Northern.
The real question is: as a unit, does New England share more with the Mid Atlantic or the Maritimes?
That’s not fair. NY and NJ are far too different themselves. I’d say New England and Mid Atlantic culture meet at NYC. New England and Great Lakes culture meet at...Syracuse maybe?
Greenwich and Westchester County are way different than Newark and Hudson County. I think the north-of-NYC vs south-of-NYC divide is pretty stark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Shudra
I’ll admit that New England culture does pierce into Northern New Jersey and Mid Atlantic culture pierces into Fairfield County, CT. That doesn’t mean the two cultures aren’t different.
Eastern Long Island is also New England-y.
Many people would argue that there are even some subtle differences between Fairfield County, CT and Westchester County, NY, myself included, since the former area was primarily settled by English people, and the latter was primarily settled by Dutch people. For example, towns in Westchester County, such as Bedford and Rye, have some "New England charm," but not to same extent as Greenwich or Ridgefield. Aside from the fact that Fairfield and Westchester are located in different states, architecture and local English accents are the two primary factors that keep both counties distinct from one another, both historically and currently.
For the most part, old houses in New England do not look anything like this home for sale on "Brevoort Rd" () at Chappaqua, Westchester County: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7...33066803_zpid/. Even in Greenwich, Ridgefield and Sherman, all of which are situated on the New York state line, most old houses look like this, consistent with the rest of New England region: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...57344097_zpid/. And if you did not notice from the street names listed at the previously captioned links, most street names in Fairfield County are of English origin, not Dutch origin, like street names in Westchester County.
Regarding local English accents, people in Fairfield County say "ont" (aunt) and "Meery Christmas," preserving the "Mary-marry-merry" merger, whereas people in Westchester County say "ant" (aunt) and "Meh-ry Christmas," disregarding the "Mary-marry-merry" merger.
Since English people actually settled and developed the East End of Long Island, unlike the Hudson River Valley, the differences between the East End of Long Island and New England are not as distinct. The only major difference I can think of is that most small churches in the countryside of the East End seem to be Methodist or Presbyterian by denomination, not Congregational. Examples of this phenomenon include Greenport United Methodist Church, North Fork United Methodist Church and First Presbyterian Church East Hampton among others.
Last edited by Bert_from_back_East; 08-17-2020 at 12:03 PM..
Many people would argue that there are even some subtle differences between Fairfield County, CT and Westchester County, NY, myself included, since the former area was primarily settled by English people, and the latter was primarily settled by Dutch people. For example, towns in Westchester County, such as Bedford and Rye, have some "New England charm," but not to same extent as Greenwich or Ridgefield. Aside from the fact that Fairfield and Westchester are located in different states, architecture and local English accents are the two primary factors that keep both counties distinct from one another, both historically and currently.
For the most part, old houses in New England do not look anything like this home for sale on "Brevoort Rd" () at Chappaqua, Westchester County: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7...33066803_zpid/. Even in Greenwich, Ridgefield and Sherman, all of which are situated on the New York state line, most old houses look like this, consistent with the rest of New England region: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...57344097_zpid/. And if you did not notice from the street names listed at the previously captioned links, most street names in Fairfield County are of English origin, not Dutch origin, like street names in Westchester County.
Regarding local English accents, people in Fairfield County say "ont" (aunt) and "Meery Christmas," preserving the "Mary-marry-merry" merger, whereas people in Westchester County say "ant" (aunt) and "Meh-ry Christmas," disregarding the "Mary-marry-merry" merger.
Since English people actually settled and developed the East End of Long Island, unlike the Hudson River Valley, the differences between the East End of Long Island and New England are not as distinct. The only major difference I can think of is that most small churches in the countryside of the East End seem to be Methodist or Presbyterian by denomination, not Congregational. Examples of this phenomenon include Greenport United Methodist Church, North Fork United Methodist Church and First Presbyterian Church East Hampton among others.
Yea this is mostly trivial.
1. Both those housing styles are found in extreme abundance in NY and all of New England.
2. The accent merger you’re talking about may be present in CT but it is not in MA or RI.
3. Dutch folks settled Central Connecticut. You ca find Tudor homes in the Behind the Rocks neighborhood in Hartford and in West Hartford. Tudor homes are also present in Newton MA.
4. None of these things you’re talking about pertain to current demographics, economics or ideology.
40% of Virginia lives in Northern Virginia though, and the transplant parts of Richmond and Hampton Roads mean something like 60% of Virginia isn't culturally Southern.
The majority of Virginia's territory is Southern, but not the majority of the people. Hence, why I placed it in the Mid-Atlantic.
Using this reasoning and logic, Florida needs to be removed from the South as well then.
Regarding local English accents, people in Fairfield County say "ont" (aunt) and "Meery Christmas," preserving the "Mary-marry-merry" merger, whereas people in Westchester County say "ant" (aunt) and "Meh-ry Christmas," disregarding the "Mary-marry-merry" merger.
That’s surprising. I thought all of New England said merry/mary/marry distinctly.
That’s surprising. I thought all of New England said merry/mary/marry distinctly.
That seems to be what most people in Eastern New England assume, including my own mother, who is a Rhode Island native. In fact, many Rhode Islanders, native and transplant alike, incorrectly assume that most people from Central and Western Connecticut are originally from the Midwest based on accent features, especially the "Mary-marry-merry" merger. Remember, Western New England was the staging area for Upstate New York, which, one or two generations later, was the staging area for the Upper Midwest. That is why the Inland North accent of the Upper Midwest and Upstate New York is so similar to the Western New England accent, which roughly spans from the Connecticut River to Glens Falls/Lake George/Queensbury/Saratoga Springs, New York. To hear true Western New England accents or any other American English accents, for that matter, always start by listening to Italian-American people, since Italian-Americans often hail from blue-collar backgrounds and, as a result, tend to have the most pronounced American English accents, regardless of their region of origin. Former CT State Senator, Sam Caliguiri, of Waterbury, CT, and former Pittsfield, MA mayor, James Ruberto, are some of the best examples of the Western New England accent.
Last edited by Bert_from_back_East; 08-17-2020 at 03:51 PM..
Western New England was the source of the Midwestern accent. There are people around North Adams who say baack, hold their short vowel sounds like people in Michigan and around the Great Lakes. Pre-WW2 a lot of white migration in this country followed lines of latitude.
Re: Census breakouts. They're mostly reasonable except DC, MD, and DE being in the South. They should have a mid-Atlantic subregion that rolls into the "East".
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) at Chappaqua, Westchester County: 
