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Here’s the problem. America in 2020 is defined more by urban rural devises because 85% of the country is urban. So yes that’s very much how I look at it-that’s where the lifeblood of American society is..and it’s not in Maine it’s in New Jersey and Massachusetts. Another issues is Maine is at least 2 hours from Boston. With the vast majority of the state being 5+ hours away. That’s why it’s not in the CSA let alone MSA.
Demographics aren’t everything but they’re a really big thing. Overall population is an even bigger thing.
UCONN and URI and UVT‘S primary sport is Basketball. MA always has a team in the NCAAA tourney. Hard to say any sport is number one when nobody watches college hockey in general. No one cares about college hockey. UCONN and UMASS both play FBS football-no northern New England states do.
Southern/Eastern Hampden County and much of Worcester Bristol and Norfolk counties gets pretty republican. With some towns voting for trump by hefty margins in 2016. No densely populated town in MA does that.
NJ has some very Republican areas as recently has 2016 NJ had a 7/5 delegation. Mass hasn’t elected a Republican since 1994. It’s not remotely close. NJ resembles the rest of the country. Like MA-01 and MA-02 would be Safe-R in the mid-atlantic looking at how white and Rural it is. ME has no buisness having the Democratic Party it has. If it wasn’t in New England. It’s sonething that unifies the whole region that is unique.
The vast majority of Maine lives within 2 hours of the Massachusetts border.
And you’re wrong about College Hockey Over 640,000 people watched last years Beanpot final on NESn (eg just New England) that’s more than would watch almost anything except the NFL and MLB.
Anyone who Skiis goes to NNE, anyone who Hikes, or Camps or whatever. People from Maine flood into Boston for events that’s why the Bruins have almost no Saturday night home games. Some Mainers and New Hampshiritescan attend and get home. So like they determine event times in Boston, that’s something that NJ people just don’t do.
You ar totally ignoring the social aspect that these populations intermix constantly and in greater numbers than MA and NJ.
Actually think about how Maine functions independently and what life is like and what people are like in Maine. A state with no regional public transportation and without a single majority minority school. A state with no city of over 100,000 people. The type of cities that define MA and NJ.
Are NJ and MA similar? no. Not really.
Are ME more similar to MA than NJ? In a lot of ways yes. In a lot of ways No. Maine is New England and people in ME have similar dialects, look to Boston for entertainment/sports/etc and both frequent eachother more often than not. Some seaport towns in ME resemble MA towns as well. The similarities between ME and MA are mostly because both are in New England and New England has a unique cultural identity.
But NJ is more similar to MA in almost every other way. But on a basic level, is NJ similar to MA? No.
NJ has some very Republican areas as recently has 2016 NJ had a 7/5 delegation. Mass hasn’t elected a Republican since 1994. It’s not remotely close. NJ resembles the rest of the country. Like MA-01 and MA-02 would be Safe-R in the mid-atlantic looking at how white and Rural it is. ME has no buisness having the Democratic Party it has. If it wasn’t in New England. It’s sonething that unifies the whole region that is unique.
The vast majority of Maine lives within 2 hours of the Massachusetts border.
And you’re wrong about College Hockey Over 640,000 people watched last years Beanpot final on NESn (eg just New England) that’s more than would watch almost anything except the NFL and MLB.
Anyone who Skiis goes to NNE, anyone who Hikes, or Camps or whatever. People from Maine flood into Boston for events that’s why the Bruins have almost no Saturday night home games. Some Mainers and New Hampshiritees can attend and get home. So like they determine event times in Boston, that’s something that NJ people just don’t do.
You ar totally ignoring the social aspect that these populations intermix constantly and in greater numbers than MA and NJ.
I understand the social concept but that’s really not what hear talking about. Ideologically, demographically, and Economically NJ and MA are more similar than MA and any northern New England state. You’re dancing around the actual question talking about sports teams and skiing. I’m talking substantive things-that’s the difference. You can talk about Cape Cod and Bruins games all you want but that doesn’t change the fact that what I said is true.
640,000 people lol. So 1/20th of New England watched 4 hockey games-March madness!!
Also The bean pot only features teams from MA nothing regional about it.
You ignored exactly what I said about UCONN URI and UVT being most known for their basketball programs nationally. No one cares or knows about their hockey teams. What you’re saying is: ‘Boston has strong hockey teams and some people watch the Beanpot. One level down In the high school sports world all of New England is known for its prep basketball. That’s would have been a better argument imo...
Furthermore just because theres more interaction within New England doesn’t mean people from NJ//MA/CT/RI/NY don’t interact and overlap time a high degree-they definitely do.
Are ME more similar to MA than NJ? In a lot of ways yes. In a lot of ways No. Maine is New England and people in ME have similar dialects, look to Boston for entertainment/sports/etc and both frequent eachother more often than not. Some seaport towns in ME resemble MA towns as well. The similarities between ME and MA are mostly because both are in New England and New England has a unique cultural identity.
But NJ is more similar to MA in almost every other way. But on a basic level, is NJ similar to MA? No.
At the end of the day NJ is more similar to MA ( and CT and RI) than any other Northern New England state. No debate.
The way that cities are scattered and their histories throughout NY and NJ is more similar to the layout, demography, history etc. of Southern New England cities. Remove NYC from NY and MA has identical demographics.
Again-New England is Definitely a region. I just think there are pretty large differences between southern and Northern NE to the point that SNE is as similar to part of the northern Mid Atlantic as they are Northern New England. Like the actual substantive ways not leisure/vacations/tradition. That’s not the question.
Hell, you see more triple deckers in Hudson Bergen and Essex County NJ than you do in Northern New England (especially Vermont). Again I was just there (Journal Square and Newark) a few hours ago so I’m not grasping at straws.
At the end of the day NJ is more similar to MA ( and CT and RI) than any other Northern New England state. No debate.
The way that cities are scattered and their histories throughout NY and NJ is more similar to the layout, demography, history etc. of Southern New England cities. Remove NYC from NY and MA has identical demographics.
Again-New England is Definitely a region. I just think there are pretty large differences between southern and Northern NE to the point that SNE is as similar to part of the northern Mid Atlantic as they are Northern New England. Like the actual substantive ways not leisure/vacations/tradition. That’s not the question.
Hell, you see more triple deckers in Hudson Bergen and Essex County NJ than you do in Northern New England (especially Vermont). Again I was just there (Journal Square and Newark) a few hours ago so I’m not grasping at straws.
Again your missing a lot of points there. Its fine you might think that, but noone is wrong if they dont agree with you there. Should be the end of the debate right there. Vibes in NJ are polar opposite to NE, havent really ever heard MA is similar to NJ until now.
I understand the social concept but that’s really not what hear talking about. Ideologically, demographically, and Economically NJ and MA are more similar than MA and any northern New England state. You’re dancing around the actual question talking about sports teams and skiing. I’m talking substantive things-that’s the difference. You can talk about Cape Cod and Bruins games all you want but that doesn’t change the fact that what I said is true.
640,000 people lol. So 1/20th of New England watched 4 hockey games-March madness!!
Also The bean pot only features teams from MA nothing regional about it.
You ignored exactly what I said about UCONN URI and UVT being most known for their basketball programs nationally. No one cares or knows about their hockey teams. What you’re saying is: ‘Boston has strong hockey teams and some people watch the Beanpot. One level down In the high school sports world all of New England is known for its prep basketball. That’s would have been a better argument imo...
Furthermore just because theres more interaction within New England doesn’t mean people from NJ//MA/CT/RI/NY don’t interact and overlap time a high degree-they definitely do.
Socially is what actually matters in day to day life and what makes a region. And Ideeologically Rural Northern New England functions like Rural MA/RI. Like Bar Harbor is basically the same town as Nantucket for example. Politically they vote similarly. Rural/Suburb NJ is not like that.
Also I think that prep school thing is just what’s New England is known for because it’s also really famous for Prep School Hockey And General Vineyard Vines/Sperrie Preppy culture.
That’s why Andover is considered Greater Lowell. Even it’s it’s more similar demographically and economically to Bedminster NJ it’s clearly more socially and culturally intertwined with Lowell and would be regionally classified as such.
But yea NJ is full of port cities as one poster already Said. Newark and Eelizabeth are great examples as well as Perth Amboy.
No, I looked those up and they’re nothing like the cities I mentioned.
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I don’t think you know NJ all that well. Demographically Lawrence is Perth Amboy(Dominican) not Nashua. It matters none their on the same river.
Wait. Is Perth Amboy a mill city or a port city?
Regardless, Lowell, Lawrence, and Haverhill are very very very different demographically. That doesn’t mean they aren’t 3 peas in a pod.
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If you think MA is more similar to a 90% white state with 1 million people than
Yeah. The reason it has so few people is because it’s effectively an extension of another state: MA. If you’re going to separate New England into two separate regions, you might as well separate PA into two (east & west) as well.
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MA and NJ all both full of cities scattered throughout the area and rely heavily on one region (NNJ/EASTERN MA) for statewide prosperity.
NJ is WAY more evenly split between north and south than MA is from east to west.
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Furthermore who cares about the Berkshires mountain range?? CT and RI have no famous mountain ranges lol. Neither does NH or Maine... random comment.
Socially is what actually matters in day to day life and what makes a region. And Ideligixally Rural Northern New England functions like Rural MA/RI. Like Bar Harbor is basically the same town as Nantucket for example.
Also I think that prep school thing is just what’s New England is known for because it’s also really famous for Prep School Hockey And General Vineyard Vines/Sperrie Preppy culture.
That’s why Andover is considered Greater Lowell. Even it’s it’s more similar demographically and economically to Bedminster NJ it’s clearly more socially and culturally intertwined with Lowell and would be regionally classified as such.
No, I looked those up and they’re nothing like the cities I mentioned.
Wait. Is Perth Amboy a mill city or a port city?
Regardless, Lowell, Lawrence, and Haverhill are very very very different demographically. That doesn’t mean they aren’t 3 peas in a pod.
Yeah. The reason it has so few people is because it’s effectively an extension of another state: MA. If you’re going to separate New England into two separate regions, you might as well separate PA into two (east & west) as well.
NJ is WAY more evenly split between north and south than MA is from east to west.
WHAT!?
Couple questions:
Can me a famous MOUNTAIN RANGE from NH or ME?
The largest city in South Jersey has what 80,000 people?
Is Newark is Elizabeth really “nothing like” Providence Bridgeport Lynn or Worcester?
What about Morristown and Framingham? Not alike?
To answer your question:
Perth Amboy is a port city.
Cultural Demographics and economic networks. All of New England has roads that lead to Boston economically, culturally and socially (to a point where it might be kind of bad) that’s what makes it one region.
The thing is I think while they may check a box saying they are Irish or Greek on a Census form I think most people would consider themselves New Englanders and thus Identify with a Mainer more than a New Jersian.
Oregon is 2% black so is demographically like Maine I guess. Are they the same region?
Nobody really doubts both Oregon and California are West Coast despite them being more different than ME and MA demographically
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