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And there's even some variation as to how define the Southeast. LA and AR are clearly Southern, but are they in the Southeast? I say no as I consider the Mississippi River to be the boundary but I recall a thread here years ago where someone restricted the Southeast to the Southern states on the East Coast (Virginia, the Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida). I disagreed but there was a certain logic to that take.
Their flora, fauna, overall culture, and geography all fit more with the South(east) despite being west of the river. Those states don't have any Great Plains/Prairie to them at all, unlike the states to the north of them which border the Mississippi. Which is why I consider east Texas Southern. It has a lot of similarities with Louisiana and Arkansas.
Northern Oklahoma is physically South, but has much more in common with Nebraska than it does Mississippi.
Parts of Ohio are east of Savannah, but is considered as quintessentially Midwestern as it gets by most people.
The Florida Keys are as far South as it gets, but don't have much in common with Alabama at all.
I guess what I'm saying is that the flow of culture, geography, etc gets messy and doesn't stick to neat and tidy lines. That's why people debate this sort of thing.
I can see what IowanFarmer is saying. The Southwest doesn’t begin once you cross from Texas into New Mexico. Topographically and to a much lesser extent, cultural regions doesn’t abide by that. Though the majority of New Mexico is Southwestern, people from Eastern NM do point out that it does have much in common with West Texas. At the same time, nobody can honesty say that the Trans Pecos area of Texas is Southern. At least in the sense of what people see as Southern by topography and culture.
Eastern New Mexico is very similar to West Texas. They call it little Texas. Other than that, which says more about eastern NM than West TX, what similarities does West Texas have with the southwest exactly?
The TransPecos part of Texas is "southwestern" in every sense of the word. The Permian Basin, the South Plains and the Panhandle all have a SW and Plains element to them as well as the Southern element. Much of the SW element is terrain, and floura and fauna as it is people.
I question how anybody could classify Palo Duro Canyon as anything but "southwestern" even though it is up in the Panhandle.
I consider San Antonio to be in "the south" in terms of geography. I don't think that "southern culture" is particularly strong there, however. Texas culture is a cousin to the "southern" for sure but to me it is nonetheless clearly distinct. Is San Antonio culture more like Louisiana or Albuquerque? If I had to pick I'd go with the latter.
Me neither. Again could be Houston bias but unless you live West of I-35. I hear Southern pride, everyday even in Austin. In fact my old middle Eastern neighbor who's a bit whitewashed has a Confederate flag displayed in his house. On the flip side their is massive Southern pride within Minorities. even something like the Rodeo in Houston is seen as a Southern event even though it's culturally more "Southwestern". I don't know about others but I definitely have a larger view of the South than most people.
The idea of rodeo being southern is nonsense. Rodeo (and cattle ranching as opposed to farming) is Western and is rooted in Spanish traditions. That's a very common fallacy I see in this recurring debate: take something that is distinctly Texan, declare that it is Southern, and then use that to prove that Texan == Southern.
The idea of rodeo being southern is nonsense. Rodeo (and cattle ranching as opposed to farming) is Western and is rooted in Spanish traditions. That's a very common fallacy I see in this recurring debate: take something that is distinctly Texan, declare that it is Southern, and then use that to prove that Texan == Southern.
That, and rodeo is popular all the way up into Canada. Not exactly "southern".
The TransPecos part of Texas is "southwestern" in every sense of the word. The Permian Basin, the South Plains and the Panhandle all have a SW and Plains element to them as well as the Southern element. Much of the SW element is terrain, and floura and fauna as it is people.
I question how anybody could classify Palo Duro Canyon as anything but "southwestern" even though it is up in the Panhandle.
I just don't see what geography has to do with the discussion. The question is about culture, yes?
I just don't see what geography has to do with the discussion. The question is about culture, yes?
To me the geography does influence the culture to some degree due to weather, economy, and things of that nature. However, having actually lived out there (Lubbock/Alpine) and having lived in the Southwest there is some overlap in culture.
Lubbock is as much or more like Tucson as it is Little Rock or Jackson in many ways. This is particularly true historically more than the "move in" culture obviously. Cowboys, ranching etc.
But I can't argue that west Texas doesn't have a stout southern "people" culture. Because it certainly does.
I consider San Antonio to be in "the south" in terms of geography. I don't think that "southern culture" is particularly strong there, however. Texas culture is a cousin to the "southern" for sure but to me it is nonetheless clearly distinct. Is San Antonio culture more like Louisiana or Albuquerque? If I had to pick I'd go with the latter.
I can't think of a single similarity between San Antonio and Abq. other than lots of mexicans.
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