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Thanks bus man. I completely agree with your point "A city that allows a bunch of violent overgrown children to take over a neighborhood and evict the police from their station, with few if any repercussions, is a city that will inexorably edge its way toward anarchy."
And I know it. But in clown world, there is no escape and one must pick a poison. I could write the same thing for the United States as a whole = "A country that allows a bunch of violent overgrown children to hijack a presidential election, without repercussions, is a country that will inexorably edge its way towards anarchy." So, I'm just picking my poisons.
Yea, in WA all regions are on the table. Maybe except Yakima.
For Indiana, I'd be looking to hopefully move to a smaller city, not Indianapolis. The bad thing here is mostly the low wages and limited job opportunities. I don't care for geography or beauty, it does nothing for me in the end. I just want peace.
Yep, Evansville has been on my radar! Thanks!
Clown world . . . yep, ain't that the truth.
I'll repeat my opinion that I really think you should eliminate Seattle from consideration. I think that it's heading for a dark future, and doing it with increasing speed. Spokane will be your best bet in Washington State, I believe. I don't know if this matters to you, but Spokane has more airline service than Fort Wayne or Evansville do . . . though, of course, far less than Seattle and even less than Indianapolis.
If you don't want Indianapolis, Fort Wayne and Evansville would probably be your best bets in Indiana. I don't know anything about Bloomington, but just from your stats, it appears to be considerably more expensive.
If you are willing to consider somewhere "near" Indiana but not in it, I would offer up Grand Rapids, Michigan. It's a very pleasant place with a fairly good economy, and I believe that housing is still somewhat affordable there.
Good luck. It's getting harder and harder to find a place where you can find peace and be left alone to live your life.
I know that WA is a hip/cool area. I don't like that about it, and I've lived in many hip/cool places which do nothing for me. But for the other pros listed, I'd be willing to put up with it. I think I'd really like the mild and overcast weather in WA.
I moved from the Seattle area to Kansas City 5 years ago, having lived in Washington state (mostly Seattle, but also a few years in Spokane) for 27 years. After a while I, too, got sick of hip/cool stuff (though that wasn't my main reason for moving). Everybody and his kid brother wants to move to hip and cool Seattle because it's hip and cool and has nice scenery. Of course, with all those hip and cool seekers there, you're gonna get predictable results (expensive housing, etc).
Another thing about living on the west coast that I didn't appreciate until a little while after moving away from it: I too, liked the cool and overcast weather, but summer is a dry season and very sunny (though not terribly hot). The downside of that sunny weather is you get lots of forest fires, and with that you get a good number of days where the air quality sucks. Having been in KC for a while (and I grew up in NJ), nothing beats moist weather year-round. Yeah, the humidity in summer can be a bummer sometimes, but it actually makes for better breathing air. Plus, thunderstorms are cool.
If you like the overcast weather you might want to consider other areas around the Great Lakes in addition to Indiana.
BTW, for Spokane, Spokane is probably the only place out west I would ever consider moving to again. But even then you'd have to pay me a ton of money to do so. I am never ever ever moving to a place with a dry season in the summer. It sounds nice in theory until you've got days or weeks of air that smells like forest fire smoke.
There does not seem to a lot useful information for me to aid your choice. Don't know your current state, what you like / dislike about it, preferred metro size range, etc.
I think it better to focus on cities than states as well.
Don't know what you like to do outside work.
But if you pursue Washington, I'd suggest work in Olympia / live in Tumwater or outside the urban core (any direction but northeast). Or work in Spokane and either live in best city neighborhoods or live north or east of the city. Possibly look at Walla Walla.
Evansville might be alright but I'd say look at Louisville, Lexington, Bowling Green KY too.
Reasons 1, 3, and 4 automatically eliminate Seattle from consideration, and because of its proximity, Tacoma gets the ax as well. Seriously, just think about your fourth reason. A city that allows a bunch of violent overgrown children to take over a neighborhood and evict the police from their station, with few if any repercussions, is a city that will inexorably edge its way toward anarchy. Coupled with that, apparently the homeless situation is atrocious there, and very much in your face, from what I've heard. Spokane is a different animal entirely, so if I were you, I would focus all of my Washington State attention there.
Indianapolis is not without its issues, though it's certainly a more peaceful place than Seattle. But as it grows, things like crowding and traffic congestion may become more and more acute. I've heard a lot of good things about Fort Wayne, so that may be a good place to focus your attention. (My only experience with Fort Wayne is driving around it on the interstate; but the stuff I could see from the highway looked pretty nice, in general.)
Incidentally, Washington is mountainous while Indiana is flat. If you have a strong preference one way or another, be sure and factor that into the equation.
EDIT to add, here's an article about places that Millennials are buying homes nowadays. One of the cities listed is Evansville, Indiana. I don't know if that's on your radar or not, but there it is.
Going north of Indianapolis the topography is pretty flat but southern Indiana is somewhat hilly. No mountains but the scenery is not the same as in northern Indiana.
I spent 33 years in Fort Wayne and it's a nice city. The economy has enough variety to keep most people employed and there are a few colleges and a vocational technical school located in the city. The city has 3 hospitals that are all pretty large. Homes are definitely less expensive than most of the country and the public schools are good. Fort Wayne is a great place to raise a family. People are friendly and the city has several nice parks as well as a walking-biking trail. I grew up in central Indiana but preferred Fort Wayne over the Indy area. Traffic is too jammed up in Indy to suit me. The weather might put some people off anywhere in Indiana. Winters can seem long and the skies can be gray for long periods of time. I'm from Indiana so I was used to it. Newcomers may not like that.
You might look east of Bloomington towards Columbus, Indiana. I'm not sure what your industry is but Columbus is the home for Cummins Engine and also Toyota Forklifts. Jobs in this area are typically far more than the $35K approx average income figure. Cost of living is a high here compared to rest of state, but a lot of folks get around that by living in Nashville IN (small town between Columbus and Bloomington-very artsy and known for the beautiful forest and fall foliage--this is the one part of Indiana that is NOT flat! ) or up towards Franklin, IN and then making the 30 min or so commute to work in Columbus. Because of the presence of Cummins World Headquarters, Columbus has a lot more diversity than other small cities its size in Indiana. And you are less than an hour from Indy, about an hour from Louisville and then about 90 min from Cincinnati. So larger cities, and airports, aren't too far a drive.
If Indy isn't for you definitely look at Fort Wayne. My wife is from that area and if we go back to visit her folks or friends that live in that area there is always something to do. Traffic is nothing there and you can be most places around that city in about 15-20 minutes, even during rush hour.
I know you said Bloomington is a little out of your desired house budget. You might consider Lafayette though. West Lafayette is where Purdue is and is its own city/address. If you are wanting to avoid the college / party scene they mostly stay on that side of town. Lafayette downtown is right next to West Lafayette, but there are many other cool areas of town that are far enough away from the college scene. However, especially in the winter, the university can provide some cool events. Housing average is $105,300. Finally, if you are thinking about career changes Lafayette will have plenty of opportunities due to its size for other career field education or training and not necessarily through Purdue. From Lafayette you can be in Chicago in about 2 hours or Indy in 1 hour. My grandparents lived in Lafayette on the far eastside for most of my early life and they enjoyed it and I did when I visited, albeit I was not a 30 year old.
I second kasey36 on Columbus. It is a great city and close to Brown County State Park, Nashville (IN) and other major cities as they mentioned. In the Indiana forums I've recommended Franklin to several people from Illinois that were looking at moving to Indiana based on cost of living. 1 of them recently moved to Greenwood and are enjoying it, but wishing they'd moved to Franklin. Very small town by comparison to the others we've mentioned so far, but the downtown square has some cool restaurants/shops and it's big enough to provide the box stores and other features. Very small college there and again close enough if you needed to commute to Indy you could do so. That commute during rush hour would not be a fun one though if you end up having to work downtown Indy.
I am not as familiar with Evansville. As of right now it's the forgotten city. Since it is not directly connected to Indy and there's no major city you get to directly by passing through it people don't think of it as much as Fort Wayne, Lafayette or others mentioned. Eventually that will be remedied when they finish 69, but until then it's our 3rd largest city, but never really spoken of. They actually have a cool downtown right on the Ohio River and several colleges/universities around again for if you choose to take on another career field. I have no idea on traffic. There are some cool things nearby though like Holiday World and you are actually closer to Louisville and St Louis than Indy until they finish 69.
Two others that are nice, I don't know alot about other than friends in the area enjoy it, though they have families so not sure if their experience helps yours are Valparaiso and Elkhart/Mishawaka/South Bend area. I can't speak too much to them other than its an fairly short drives to Indy, Chicago, Ft Wayne or other places when you would need to go there.
Indiana has some of the cheaper cost of living and real estate you'll find anywhere, but that's part of why salaries are lower in that they reflect that. We also don't have as many "fun" things for people to do (relatively speaking). Having said that. I have lived my whole life in and around the Indianapolis area. As Veniceman said there are some things that as Indiana natives don't bother us or they do, but we are used to it that might be a turn off for people not from here. We don't have mountains, not much in the way of beaches, and compared to other states or cities our downtown is probably lame. I enjoy those things on vacation in other states, but most of the year wouldn't have time for them with job and life anyway. So for me it works out fine. I'm used to it and I can save my money that's not going to as high of property taxes (looking at you Illinois) or mortgage payments and put it instead towards vacations or other things.
We definitely get all 4 seasons, which I love, but can play havoc on your allergies if you have them. Winters are great when we get snow (my opinion, others hate it due to the traffic issues it causes) but are just dreary and cold if there's no snow. Days on end of cloudy gray skies. I'm used to it, but if you aren't it can definitely affect your moods. Racism won't really be talked about or as much of an issue in the cities as you put in your post. If you get to the rural areas maybe, but really what you'll notice is that the rural areas are more conservative and the cities tend to lean more liberal and the suburbs no matter where you decide to settle will be more purple. Having said that an Indiana liberal typically doesn't tilt the scale beyond center in comparison to a liberal in many other states. I'm not saying ones good or bad just letting you know how people typically vote/act.
You might also consider Ohio and Michigan. I have family in Wisconsin and that area can be great, but it is expensive! Illinois if you don't live in Chicago area doesn't care about you and their property taxes, at least in Chicago area are crazy! Ohio and Michigan will have a similar vibe in some regards to Indiana, but definitely have a lot more big city options for you for visiting or other experiences. Michigan is pretty on par home sale wise with Indiana. Lansing the state captial and close to the home of Michigan State University is $85,000. I would consider Grand Rapids/Holland/Zeeland area as busman said gives you nice access to the western beaches on Lake Michigan and not a bad trip to Chicago, Detroit, or Indy. Their weather is on par with ours in Indiana. Main area of Ohio I'd look is Toledo, maybe Dayton. Dayton and Cincinnatti are nice cities, but expanding out towards each other so much that it's just sprawl on top of sprawl. I can't imagine rush hour in those areas is fun.
Spokane is in WA, but AFAIK has yet to be accused of being hip or cool.
The winters there would be a lot chillier than in Seattle,
but still milder than Indiana winters, I'll bet.
Some people here on CD say it's standing still or even declining economically
(whereas, next door in Idaho, Boise is booming). But you probably don't want
a fast-growing city... that would mean crowding and traffic.
I haven't been there, so haven't got any first-hand info to offer... but it might be worth a look.
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Thanks!
