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Married couple (33M + 29F) who work in software/tech. Spent several years in both Los Angeles and San Francisco. Currently in Ann Arbor, MI, which has been a great way to save money and live somewhere quiet, safe, and comfortable. The weather's getting tough to bear though, and we'd like to head back west. Looking for a new city to live in that meets these criteria:
• Timezone: pacific
• Weather: doesn't dip below ~30℉ in winter and doesn't peak above ~100℉ in summer
• Cost of housing: average price of a 1 bedroom rental not more than ~$1,800/month
• Food/retail: Trader Joe's, Target, Costco, and an Amazon warehouse nearby
• Travel: within 1 hour drive of a medium-to-large airport
• Recreation: easy access to nature
• Politics: purple (share views with both sides)
We know we're priced out of core, high-density areas in SF and LA, and that's OK -- we've demographically transitioned out of needing a "hustle and bustle" vibe anyway.
We love the Ann Arbor experience, but want to find it in the West. Here, our money has afforded us a very spacious 1BR apartment at a reasonable price, and being 30 minutes to DTW has been very convenient. There's a good balance here: on weekdays, we live a suburban car-culture life, and on the weekends, we live the Downtown walk-about life.
It's just the really cold winters and the very humid summers that are becoming hard to tolerate. Also: the Midwest has very poor weekend getaways compared to the West.
We're narrowing our list down to Pacific Northwest (Seattle or Portland), or in California (Santa Cruz, Ventura County, or San Diego). We're thinking we could find reasonably priced housing in the suburbs of these metros, but not sure what the downsides would be, apart from long commutes once working in the office becomes a reality again in the not-too-distant future.
Have you looked into Tacoma? You can find places basically anywhere in the city for that budget. Crime isn't as bad as its reputation, aside from parts of south Tacoma that are far from all the nightlife anyway. Politics are more socially moderate than in Seattle, since it's historically been more of a blue-collar, union, industrial-type city than a cultural destination and there's a big military base just south of town. I'll link a few streetviews of neighborhoods you might look into:
Farther south, Olympia reminds me very much of Madison and Ann Arbor. It is quite a bit smaller than Tacoma and farther from Seattle, but doesn't have the gritty vibe that Tacoma does and which might be off-putting to some --- it's more of a hippie/artsy kind of town. However Olympia does have a lot of homeless downtown for the size of city that it is. A few more streetviews to get a taste:
Either city would put you an hour from the Olympic Peninsula: Tacoma to the northeastern part via Bremerton, Olympia to the southwestern part via Aberdeen. Both cities are on Puget Sound and have many state parks accessible nearby, as well as plenty of cafes, bars, interesting restaurants, places to see bands, etc., and are both within 1 hour of SeaTac Airport (and 1.5 hours of Mt. Rainier).
Put San Diego near the top of your list. Traffic sucks, but it's better than a lot of the cities you listed. It's cheaper than sf/la/San Jose, too. Plenty to do there, obviously.
Have you looked into Tacoma? You can find places basically anywhere in the city for that budget. Crime isn't as bad as its reputation, aside from parts of south Tacoma that are far from all the nightlife anyway. Politics are more socially moderate than in Seattle, since it's historically been more of a blue-collar, union, industrial-type city than a cultural destination and there's a big military base just south of town.
Thank you for this suggestion, and double-thanks for the well-chosen streetviews -- I'm new to this community (though I've lurked for a while) and I find so many like-minded individuals here! I saw these streetview links and I was like, ah, my people!
Few questions about Tacoma: how bad does auto traffic get for the days we'd like to get into Seattle? Alternatively, what about rail or ferry transit into Seattle -- are those viable options? We've taken the Amtrak Cascades before but I'm not sure if there's a "local" that runs on the same line.
Separately, lots of brick buildings I see in those streetviews -- hope those are reinforced! I'd be interested also in how much of the housing stock is new / not brick. I keep the earthquake risk in mind anywhere up and down the Pacific coast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars
Farther south, Olympia reminds me very much of Madison and Ann Arbor. It is quite a bit smaller than Tacoma and farther from Seattle, but doesn't have the gritty vibe that Tacoma does and which might be off-putting to some --- it's more of a hippie/artsy kind of town. However Olympia does have a lot of homeless downtown for the size of city that it is.
Olympia looks neat! Again, very well-chosen streetviews, and I thank you for that. I have the same questions about transit to Seattle as I did about Tacoma.
About the homeless: this is something we've seen a lot of in San Francisco (and now a lot more in LA too). It seems to be the "new normal" up and down the Pacific. Being in Ann Arbor has been a reprieve -- I think there's about 10 homeless in the whole town, no joke. I think as long as it's not the type of homeless that are physically aggressive, we could deal with it. That was the issue in SF mainly -- our concern grew into one about personal safety. [Note: these are not meant to be political statements. We feel for the homeless, and we've spent time volunteering to help, but when it comes to personal safety, I think we all can agree there isn't a higher priority than that.]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars
Either city would put you an hour from the Olympic Peninsula: Tacoma to the northeastern part via Bremerton, Olympia to the southwestern part via Aberdeen. Both cities are on Puget Sound and have many state parks accessible nearby
Honestly, you're getting me really excited about PacNW! We've dreamed for years of being able to explore the lush forests and high mountains of the region. We're so tempted to make the move. Interestingly, Seattle rents look to be down ~16% YoY, while Tacoma and Olympia rents are up ~20-30% YoY (per Zumper). Makes sense though, given that a lot of people are now in a similar boat as us.
Do you have thoughts on cities north of Seattle, like Everrett or Mukilteo? You seem really informed about the Puget Sound region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbelievehim
Put San Diego near the top of your list. Traffic sucks, but it's better than a lot of the cities you listed. It's cheaper than sf/la/San Jose, too. Plenty to do there, obviously.
We're giving San Diego serious consideration. Can you elaborate more about it? What makes it so much better than the other cities? We've had many trips to SD over the years so have a good lay of the land, but don't know what it's like to live there as a local, to commute, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by ram2
Do you go up north in Michigan on the weekends, or to the west side of the state? What type of getaways are you looking for?
Ah, I knew I might get into this debate! We've been up north to Traverse City twice, and it's beautiful up there, no question. It was also really fun to tour the wineries and breweries. Admittedly, we haven't made it as far up as Mackinaw and the UP. For us, these are really far drives from Ann Arbor for just the weekend.
In SF, the wine country was just 1 hour away. Yosemite was 4 hours away. Tahoe was 3-4 hours away. Monterey/Carmel/BigSur were 2 hours away. The redwoods were all around.
In LA, within 1-2 hours you had Santa Barbara, Palm Springs, Laguna Beach, Big Bear/Angeles Crest, and in about 3-4 hours you'd get to Sequoia and Kings Canyon NPs.
I just don't see how the Midwest is comparable to this, especially for someone who likes steep terrain.
Last edited by captainpalsgraf; 04-27-2021 at 06:49 AM..
Ah, I knew I might get into this debate! We've been up north to Traverse City twice, and it's beautiful up there, no question. It was also really fun to tour the wineries and breweries. Admittedly, we haven't made it as far up as Mackinaw and the UP. For us, these are really far drives from Ann Arbor for just the weekend.
In SF, the wine country was just 1 hour away. Yosemite was 4 hours away. Tahoe was 3-4 hours away. Monterey/Carmel/BigSur were 2 hours away. The redwoods were all around.
In LA, within 1-2 hours you had Santa Barbara, Palm Springs, Laguna Beach, Big Bear/Angeles Crest, and in about 3-4 hours you'd get to Sequoia and Kings Canyon NPs.
I just don't see how the Midwest is comparable to this, especially for someone who likes steep terrain.
Mackinaw City is 4 hours from Ann Arbor, the same drive time as several of your California destinations.
Michigan has wine country around Grand Rapids, 2 hours from Ann Arbor.
I am familiar with LA traffic. 1 hour drive time there equals 10 miles.
Sacramento came to mind.
Even though these don't fully fit your criteria, I think they could be close:
Boise, SLC, Tucson, Santa Fe and Flagstaff. The last two may be too small but are fairly close to much bigger cities. Tucson hits a lot of your asks, but it does get a bit over 100 during the summer. Boise and SLC slightly dip below 30 in the winter, although, I don't find SLC to have too harsh of winters by any means. I'd consider Reno possibly as well.
If you're still open to the Midwest, KC may be worth a try!
Best of luck.
Mackinaw City is 4 hours from Ann Arbor, the same drive time as several of your California destinations.
Michigan has wine country around Grand Rapids, 2 hours from Ann Arbor.
I am familiar with LA traffic. 1 hour drive time there equals 10 miles.
Grand Rapids homer here so I love when it gets a plug, though I'm not sure that I'd equate Michigan wine country as equivalent to the world renown CA industry. If someone is looking for that experience they just won't be able to replicate in Michigan.
Though I would push back on the OP for constantly referencing the experience in the "Midwest" about Michigan's outdoor amenities. While MI does not have CA's mountains, it has the most topographically diverse natural amenities found almost anywhere in the interior of the country. Spend a few weeks in Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas etc and then tell me how "Midwest" Michigan is in comparison.
I was about to suggest Tacoma! It's basically Seattle lite in a lot of ways (density, cost). By coincidence I blogged about it today with a focus on why its office market is going to emerge.
Transit from Tacoma to Seattle is pretty good. There's an express bus every five (?) minutes from the Tacoma Dome area, and it's mostly on HOV lanes. There's also commuter rail at rush hour, plus Amtrak. I rode that bus on Friday to take a long walk through Tacoma...actually thought about stopping at that shake shop in the street view.
Everett has an urban core if you want to go a rung smaller.
Seattle, Portland, and most of CA is far from being purple (especially Portland). Be careful what you wish for. Good luck wherever you end up.
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