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Oklahoma - I really don't know how to categorize Oklahoma. Is it the South? Midwest?
Texas - Is it the South? The Southwest? Just Texas?
Connecticut - It's part of New England AND the Tri-state area. Can it be both? Is there a dividing line?
^ Connecticut isn't as hard to pin down. Fairfield County is New York City suburbia, the rest of the state is New England. At least that's how I see it. I believe I read a long time ago that the New Haven area is the transition zone between Yankees fans and Red Sox fans, which may sound silly but says a lot.
IMO:
Oklahoma - Great Plains akin to Kansas or Nebraska but southern-influenced, especially in the Ozarks and areas south or east of Muskogee. Tulsa and especially Oklahoma City are more so Plains cities than southern, definitely more similar to the likes of Wichita, Kansas City, or Omaha than Memphis, Birmingham, or Atlanta. The Sooners joining the SEC doesn't change my mind. I have family there and I've never viewed Oklahoma, overall, as a true southern state.
Texas - Similar to Oklahoma but more southern-influenced, especially in the eastern part of the state. Dallas is kind of like a dividing line between the South and Plains, but all areas west of Fort Worth should not be included in the South. Those areas are too far west, they're in the Plains. The biggest city in Texas that could arguably be southern is Houston, I won't argue against that. Austin and San Antonio, not as much. Maybe I-45 could be the dividing line? The way I view Texas is that when you look at it from above, like on Google Earth, the green areas (piney woods) are southern. The rest of the state, not really.
West Virginia - Southern Appalachia meets the Rust Belt. You could possibly cut the state in half. Wheeling and Morgantown are in the Pittsburgh metro and are practically indistinguishable from Pennsylvania and Ohio. Beckley and areas south of Charleston are far more similar to the Appalachian sections of Virginia, Tennessee, and North Carolina. Charleston and Huntington are kind of in the middle. It's not this simple but it's close enough.
Maryland - Solidly mid-Atlantic, but more Northeastern than southern. Baltimore does not give off a southern vibe at all. It's way too industrial and gritty, most southern cities aren't like that. The D.C. metro isn't southern either. The Eastern Shore and southern Maryland, possibly. I wouldn't argue against someone if they told me Salisbury was southern. Tidewater culture has southern roots, and it spreads as far south as eastern North Carolina.
It makes up part of the northern international border.
There are two states east of it and eight states west of it. How is that not northeast?
Everyone go zoom out on a map of the U.S. and draw a circle around Ohio.
Imagine you are taking a test on basic understanding of cardinal directions and spatial relationships.
How would you be able to answer anything other than "its in the northeast" for Ohio?
You need to understand how the term "Midwest" (originally "Middle West") came to be. Here's a short US history lesson: Earlier in our nation's history, everything west of the Appalachian Mountains was called "the West". Most of what we call "the West" today weren't even states. Pre-Civil War, even Western NY was referred to as "the West" by New Englanders and coastal dwellers.
Minnesota at one time was considered the "Northwest", generally starting more than a century ago because the real NW was undeveloped and evolving. Times change, and the term slowly lost its signficance. Northwest Airlines had been based in Minnesota for probably over 80 years. They of course have merged with Delta so the point is moot. Though Delta remains a strong hub in Minneapolis.
Lots of old businesses in Minnesota still have "Northwest" in their names, like Northwest Camera Exchange and Northwestern Life Insurance Company. That terrible beer they used to brew in St. Paul, Hamm's, had a slogan "The beer that grew with the Great Northwest".
No, the 1980s were not that long ago, I remember them well. No one in the 1980s called Minnesota "the Northwest".
NW Airlines dated to the 1920s and was called that because they served the area of the former Northwest Territory.
That's not why. It was because their original routes were to Seattle, Portland, Spokane and some small cities in Montana, as well as Winnipeg, Edmonton and Anchorage. Later they served Hawaii, Japan, Koea, Hong Kong, China and the Phillipines, whereupon they christened themselves "Northwest Orient Airlines".
I think there may be some forgone conclusions here. Northwest airlines was originally a northern tier airline that revolved around northern routes. Early hubs were Minneapolis, Chicago and Seattle. They also became a major carrier to Hawaii in the late 60’s. When they became part of Delta the system changed but still fed those original routes. This is why Delta is the 2nd largest carrier in Seattle, after Alaska.
Lots of old businesses in Minnesota still have "Northwest" in their names, like Northwest Camera Exchange and Northwestern Life Insurance Company. That terrible beer they used to brew in St. Paul, Hamm's, had a slogan "The beer that grew with the Great Northwest".
I always remember Hamm's being "the beer from the land of sky blue waters".
I struggled finding drinkable sweet tea in Lexington. Kentucky was a slave state to be sure, but it was about 80/20 Union as evidence by subsequent elections and soldiers sent. The Confederate monuments add to Kentucky buying into the Southern myth after the war. It’s a fairly common trope, Kentucky was the only state to secede after the War was over. I didn’t invent it. But the book in question I saw about much of it being a horse racing pr move was How Kentucky Became Southern: A Tale of Outlaws, Horse Thieves, Gamblers, and Breeders. But a quick Google search shows there are other pieces along those lines.
But maybe Kentucky can join West Virginia in the challenging category. It’s more of a puzzle box than the other border states of Maryland and Missouri to me.
Kentucky had a rich history of horse farms and horse racing, long before the Civil War. Up until a couple of years ago when some people protested and became "woke", there was a large statue and memorial dedicated to Jefferson Davis located in the State Capital Building in Frankfort KY.
1. A long history of slavery, slave auctions and plantations. The saying "I'll ship you South" came from KY referring to slaves.
2. Hundreds of monuments dedicated to confederate soldiers including one until recently in the state capital to Jefferson Davis. Many court houses and cemeteries included.
3. Southern food including grits, okra, sweet tea, BBQ. The first time I was served grits with breakfast was in KY
4. The vast majority of people within the state speak with a Southern Accent and call themselves Southerners outside of Louisville and some Cincinnati suburbs in Northern KY. Since I live in KY, I've heard more than a couple of people refer to some Northerners as carpet baggers.
5. Schools were segregated until the 1960s. Martin Luther king Jr. lead a march in Frankfort KY, to end segregation within the state.
6. Southern architecture like at Churchill Downs.
7. KY is located south of the Ohio River, the traditional and current border dividing North and South.
I don't know what else it would take for you to acknowledge KY is a Southern State in location, history, culture and current residents. You're just stuck in limbo, because you can't admit you're wrong. Some people are just like that.
Last edited by marino760; 06-15-2022 at 08:41 AM..
Not an entire state, but Western New York. Is it the East Coast....not really. Is it the Midwest...no... You can call it the Great Lakes, but is a region that encompasses everything from northern Minnesota to northern New York, a couple hundred miles from Montreal its own single region?
Not an entire state, but Western New York. Is it the East Coast....not really. Is it the Midwest...no... You can call it the Great Lakes, but is a region that encompasses everything from northern Minnesota to northern New York, a couple hundred miles from Montreal its own single region?
Very easy, western New York is the interior Northeast, part of the Great Lakes region, and also part of the Snow Belt as well as the Rust Belt. The Great Plains of the Midwest becomes the West, along and west of 100 degrees longitude.
Not an entire state, but Western New York. Is it the East Coast....not really. Is it the Midwest...no... You can call it the Great Lakes, but is a region that encompasses everything from northern Minnesota to northern New York, a couple hundred miles from Montreal its own single region?
Texas to Virgina is considered one region.
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