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I don't think Baltimore adds anything to DC except bodies that makes DC appear larger on paper than it really is. DC has broad influence as it is the capitol of the US, which should put it at number 1 over all other cities including NYC. If that does not make DC number 1 then it should be a tier below Chicago.
Sorry, that should have read even WITHOUT Baltimore, not with
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09
I don't know that Dallas is "ahead" of Houston, just like idk that Chicago is uniformly ahead of DC in either influence etc., rather than simply raw numbers. Raw GDP isn't enough for me to just place a city in front of another, they have to dominate in multiple factors. Houston MSA, is more ethnically diverse, and has a dominant industry unlike Dallas. Same with DC vs Chicago although I say they are close and IMO same tier. It's easy to pull out raw totals instead of looking at why cities are what they are, and rank where they do.
Fortune 500's to me only go but so far, DC has more Fortune 500's by MSA than LA, as does Minneapolis and Atlanta. Does that mean any of these cities make a case for being higher than LA?
Yeah not sure how he gets DFW before Houston.
Dominating an industry is one thing and being big because you corner an area of the country is another.
DFW biggest thing is logistics and in that industry it depends heavily on Houston and LA. In other words it depends on Houston for relevance and he wants to rank it higher? That doesn't not compute.
Even among the remaining cities I would rank DFW BEHIND Philadelphia and dead even with Atlanta and just ahead of Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
DC seems to be the least influential in terms of sphere of influence of the top 6. Outside of the federal government DC doesn’t have a local niche or culture that is widely known or identifiable. It’s influence seems to end an hour North and an Hour/1.5 hours south.
The wealth and federal government and defense is what elevates it so high. It’s a very important city practically.
What local niche or culture does Chicago or Dallas have that is widely known or identifiable? How does their presence dominate outside of it's region and DC not? The federal government has nationwide and worldwide influence. You're not making any sense.
I don't know that Dallas is "ahead" of Houston, just like idk that Chicago is uniformly ahead of DC in either influence etc., rather than simply raw numbers. Raw GDP isn't enough for me to just place a city in front of another, they have to dominate in multiple factors. Houston MSA, is more ethnically diverse, and has a dominant industry unlike Dallas. Same with DC vs Chicago although I say they are close and IMO same tier. It's easy to pull out raw totals instead of looking at why cities are what they are, and rank where they do.
Fortune 500's to me only go but so far, DC has more Fortune 500's by MSA than LA, as does Minneapolis and Atlanta. Does that mean any of these cities make a case for being higher than LA?
At some extent I do think Raw GDP is enough. And being $160B (or 26%) ahead is probably enough to justify it.
Now is 8% or 9% enough? Probably not no. DC is 28% ahead of Seattle for example and people would think you’re joking if you said Seattle and DC are peers.
I do think people lose sense of scale (which is why people compare the Loop to Manhattan more than Center City for example ) but Chicago is on the tier with Paris and the like, DC isn’t
What local niche or culture does Chicago or Dallas have that is widely known or identifiable? How does their presence dominate outside of it's region and DC not? The federal government has nationwide and worldwide influence. You're not making any sense.
Dallas is not in the league with DC. I said out of the top 6 cities. NYC LA CHI SF DC BOS.
I’m talking about soft power or being THE City.
Chicago is the big city for virtually the entire Midwest.
Known for its Deep Dish Pizza, Chicago, it accent, the Bears, Hime Alone, Michael Jordan, Oprah Winfrey and Obama. I certainly was more familiar wi the Chicago and it’s caché than DC.
In DC people kind of felled the need to tell you “it not just monuments!/ it was gentrified” basically upon entry.
Chicago is the city for hundred and hundred of miles. In DC you basically bump into Baltimore Philly and even Richmond/Hampton Roads really fast.
You just echoed my point about the government so to say I’m not makig any sense- doesn’t make any sense.
You sometimes make it seem like I’m unfamiliar with DC, and the DMV as if I weren’t in Bowie like like 16 hours ago..and didn’t live there. Now I’m in Baltimore, 45 minutes from DC and I haven’t heard anyone even say the phrase “DC” in weeks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
Dallas is not in the league with DC. I said out of the top 6 cities. NYC LA CHI SF DC BOS.
I’m talking about soft power or being THE City.
Chicago is the big city for virtually the entire Midwest.
Known for its Deep Dish Pizza, Chicago, it accent, the Bears, Hime Alone, Michael Jordan, Oprah Winfrey and Obama. I certainly was more familiar wi the Chicago and it’s caché than DC.
In DC people kind of felled the need to tell you “it not just monuments!/ it was gentrified” basically upon entry.
.
Much of this is just you personally. Deep dish pizza being the obviously most well known. The others are mainly American staples, that I don't think the average outsider is locked in on Chicago as a city when thinking about them. I think DC arguably is more well known internationally, and has more iconic monuments and buildings yes. The city has more recognizable landmarks and higher international tourism than Chicago.
Again I'm not placing DC ahead per se, I just find them to be in the same rough tier, as I posted in one of the other threads I see it more like
2a. Los Angeles, Chicago
2b. Washington DC, San Francisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
At some extent I do think Raw GDP is enough. And being $160B (or 26%) ahead is probably enough to justify it.
Now is 8% or 9% enough? Probably not no. DC is 28% ahead of Seattle for example and people would think you’re joking if you said Seattle and DC are peers.
I do think people lose sense of scale (which is why people compare the Loop to Manhattan more than Center City for example ) but Chicago is on the tier with Paris and the like, DC isn’t
I hear you, but disagree with the bolded. Chicago is not tiered there IMO. Revisit the Kearney list, it's 5 spots ahead of DC and the next N. American city in front of it. I'm not placing DC ahead categorically, but certainly think they are similarly tiered.
Also with the bolded I'll remember you pointing this out for any ensuing threads that regard CSA as Chicago is 5th after NYC, LA, SF, DC CSA's. But regarding MSA your point is taken.
Much of this is just you personally. Deep dish pizza being the obviously most well known. The others are mainly American staples, that I don't think the average outsider is locked in on Chicago as a city when thinking about them. I think DC arguably is more well known internationally, and has more iconic monuments and buildings yes. The city has more recognizable landmarks and higher international tourism than Chicago.
Again I'm not placing DC ahead per se, I just find them to be in the same rough tier, as I posted in one of the other threads I see it more like
2a. Los Angeles, Chicago
2b. Washington DC, San Francisco
The bears and home alone are both in Chicago, everyone knows Obama and Winfrey are from Chicago. The accent is also obviously Chicago and I hear it in commercials all the time. MOST of us also know CHICAGO the play and I’m sure when I type that you can envision the typeface that has become associated with CHICAGO…there’s no DC equivalent. (FWIW there is/was an actual ‘Chicago’ font it was used in the original iPad and all over Apple products for a decade+)
This is a serious downplay.
I’m gonna be real I know DC has monument but the only one I know by name is the Lincoln memorial. Again- I knew of the sears tower and the bean before I knew of the rest of them. Like I couldn’t name any of them without a google search and I’ve been there (maybe that part is me, I can concede that) But I knew of the White House and Capitol building. Even if I erroneously confused them.
You wanna go international- alright I can’t argue theat since I’m not international- but the point still stands domestically. That’s was really my only point and what I mean by sphere of influence. it’s not known as the city for as wide an area- make sense- it’s a smaller CSA and MSA. And has far fewer distinctive things that aren’t related to the federal government - that’s pretty easy to say definitively.
The sphere of influence is what put it in 2b or 3 as opposed to 2a or 2, for me and maybe some other who put it in tier 3. Can’t speak for them.
What local niche or culture does Chicago or Dallas have that is widely known or identifiable? How does their presence dominate outside of it's region and DC not? The federal government has nationwide and worldwide influence. You're not making any sense.
Chicago isn't THE dominant player in Finance but it is A Major player. DFW I can't think of any parallel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
At some extent I do think Raw GDP is enough. And being $160B (or 26%) ahead is probably enough to justify it.
Now is 8% or 9% enough? Probably not no. DC is 28% ahead of Seattle for example and people would think you’re joking if you said Seattle and DC are peers.
I do think people lose sense of scale (which is why people compare the Loop to Manhattan more than Center City for example ) but Chicago is on the tier with Paris and the like, DC isn’t
I wouldn't look solely at GDP, especially among the 4-12 cities as they leapfrog each other frequently.
Take Houston and Dallas, they have leapfroged each other about every 7 years of so. It usually follows economic cycles. I rank Houston ahead because it has an international economy. But it is behind of DFW right now because IT HAS AN INTERNATIONAL ECONOMY. An indicator of how well Houston is doing is not prices of oil but the weakness of the US dollar. I can assure you that the next economic slump will have locally important cities like Dallas nose-Diving while Houston climbs. Houston depends on foreign currency way more than DFW does. The more that foreign currency is worth. in relation to the dollar, the higher Houston’s GDP will be.
Chicago is the logistics King. Well LA, Houston and NY are actually huge too. But Chicago has logistics and also does well in areas such as Finance. People throw down terms like Balanced Economy like that mashes it important, but each and every regional hub has a balanced economy. They have to. They do not dominate in anything but because they are biggest in the region they have to be good in everything. DFW and Atlanta have balanced economies, but so what?
Chicago is also a huge player in Manufacturing too. Houston by far is #1 for number of Manufacturing companies but Chicago is#3.
We like data, but I keep repeating it over and over it has to be in context. DFW GDP overstates its importance.
Chicago is top 5 for Finance, Logistics and Manufacturing. Houston is #1 for Energy , #1 for manufacturing and top 5 for logistics.
DFW biggest claim is logistics and yet it doesn't even outcomes Houston, let alone dominate other kep industries such as Energy and Manufacturing.
Well I am shortchanging Dallas on Service Industry and Human capital, but what are those anyway? Those jobs float from place to place.
HBIC= NY
International powerhouses= LA, Chicago and maybe DC here
Titans of Industry = Or maybe DC here, SF, Boston, Houston
National Powerhouses = Philadelphia, DFW, Atlanta, Miami, Seattle
DC's influence is limited to fed gov and think tanks. DC is also known for the black professional crowd. But it's influence is very muted outside of these three things.
More on topic, Philly is still a tier 1 city. It just doesn't have the explosive growth of the Sun Belt nor dominates its region (Northeast).
Last edited by 908Boi; 12-29-2022 at 04:39 PM..
Reason: typo
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,552,695 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
The bears and home alone are both in Chicago, everyone knows Obama and Winfrey are from Chicago. The accent is also obviously Chicago and I hear it in commercials all the time. MOST of us also know CHICAGO the play and I’m sure when I type that you can envision the typeface that has become associated with CHICAGO…there’s no DC equivalent. (FWIW there is/was an actual ‘Chicago’ font it was used in the original iPad and all over Apple products for a decade+)
This is a serious downplay.
I’m gonna be real I know DC has monument but the only one I know by name is the Lincoln memorial. Again- I knew of the sears tower and the bean before I knew of the rest of them. Like I couldn’t name any of them without a google search and I’ve been there (maybe that part is me, I can concede that) But I knew of the White House and Capitol building. Even if I erroneously confused them.
You wanna go international- alright I can’t argue theat since I’m not international- but the point still stands domestically. That’s was really my only point and what I mean by sphere of influence. it’s not known as the city for as wide an area- make sense- it’s a smaller CSA and MSA. And has far fewer distinctive things that aren’t related to the federal government - that’s pretty easy to say definitively.
The sphere of influence is what put it in 2b or 3 as opposed to 2a or 2, for me and maybe some other who put it in tier 3. Can’t speak for them.
You're hyping up the Bears. They are known sure, but really? The Cubs would have been a better argument for you, or the fact that the city has two baseball teams. That's something DC doesn't have. Nobody outside of the Midwest is thinking about the Bears. I promise you. The Redskins had pull all the way to Texas at one point, and for a while a more loyal and robust fan base than the Bears. Bad choice.
Jordan sure, but it's more so the Chicago Bulls brand now when associating the city. Oprah and MJ both haven't been really either based in Chicago or repping it for 20 plus years now. The Obamas live in DC, but yes they are constantly associated with Chicago.
Home alone had a 2nd movie extremely popular (my personal favorite) based in NYC.
Either way point is I don't see the two cities drastically on a different tier. I could point out little intricate things about DC or name celebs, but that has nothing to do with me tiering a city's relevance or dominance. Chicago is bigger/larger, and still bigger economy, downtown, etc., it's very well still in front, but there's not a big difference in tier to me.
Last edited by the resident09; 12-29-2022 at 04:55 PM..
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