Will Indy, Cincy, Lex, LSVille, maybe Columbus and Dayton become the next Megalopolis (fit in, neighborhood)

[SonnyDaze]

Originally Posted by ion475

It's hard to be a "megalopolis" when there are still miles of farmlands between most of those city, other than maybe Cincy and Dayton. If anything there are probably more developments between Cincy and Dayton than Dayton and Springfield.

Putting Indy in the equation? The sprawl is not even reaching Shelbyville from Indy yet along I-74. Even Franklin Township section of Indy (SE Marion County) still has tons of farmland to be paved over for more cookie-cutter suburban housing.

There's about ~30 miles of farmland between the eastern reaches of Springfield and the western reaches of Columbus.

It's hard to see Greater Dayton connecting with Greater Columbus the way that it's coming together with Greater Cincinnati, but those are next two "closest" areas of everywhere else mentioned in this thread (Lexington and Louisville aside).

[jas75]

I think most of these metro areas have room for redevelopment in their core urban communities, and would benefit from prioritizing this over sprawling towards nearby metros. With the exception of Dayton (which can hopefully turn around in the future as it has many assets to build on), they are all experiencing moderate, steady growth.

[NJ Brazen_3133]

Originally Posted by brickpatio2018

Cincinnati and Dayton are just about there now. I drove south from Dayton to Cincinnati and there is barely any gap between Dayton's southern suburbs and Cincinnati's northern suburbs.

I got a good feeling driving through this area. It feels very new, is fairly well planned, and is a big area. The distance from northern Kentucky through Cincinnati to Dayton is about 60 miles. In comparison, Dallas to Fort Worth is 30 miles. With the right policies to attract business, this is an area you could see becoming the next DFW.

I would say DFW is more like a metro with Dallas being the central City. A Megalopolis like the BosWash is a few big cities close together. Indy, Lex, LSVille, Columbus all under or just about 2 hrs to Cincy. The NEC cities are also within 2hrs of the next big city.

Originally Posted by Nemean

I wouldn't call it a megalopolis, but I would consider it a grouping (possibly subgrouping if you're as loose as the old megaregions groupings) to take into account. It's kinda like Oklahoma City-Tulsa-NWA; or Birmingham-Huntsville-Nashville.

In terms of things like HSR, these corridors would be important, especially in the ways they could help link megaregions. But they wouldn't necessarily expect to have that whole suburbs touching thing.

Those cities are under 2hrs from each other just like the cities I mention are to Cincy. The only difference is they are on a line. Instead Indy, Lex, Cincy, LSVille, Columbus are in a cluster with Cincy being the middle.

Originally Posted by Heel82

Geographies don't make megalopolis, but interconnectivity. There is a reason the Northeastern Megalopolis became the first and most studied example of it in the world. The hourly airline shuttles, the Acela, the Uhauls going up-and-down the coast, all of it forged a region that overrode geographic considerations.

The NEC or BosWash also has proximity to each other Wash is less than two hrs from Balt. Same with Balt to Wilmington, Wilmington to Philly, Philly to NYC, NYC to New Have then Providence, and Providence finally to Boston. All under 2hrs.

The difference is the Bos Wash is along a linear path. The Indy, Cincy, Lex, LouVille, Columbus is more like a 4 point star cluster.

[NJ Brazen_3133]

I dont even think there can be a Great Lakes Megalopolis because they live very far apart as I already stated in the OP.

Chicagoland/Milwaukee is no where near Indy, or Detroit which is on the far side of Michigan. Lake Erie is a big lake. They dont call them Great Lakes for nothing. Detroit and Cleveland are not close unless you ferry across in a go fast boat. Toronto and Buffalo are practically on another lake.

If there is a Great Lakes Megalopolis then surely my aforementioned cities are already a megalopolis.

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133

Will Indy, Cincy, Lex, LSVille, with Columbus and Dayton become a new Megalopolis?

All the cities I mention are with 2hrs driving time to Cincy. Cincy being the central hub.

Wiki has an article for a Great Lakes Megalopolis. But I dont think cities not along the lake front should be included. I think the aforementioned cities can be considered a separate Megalopolis. Plus the Cities that are on the lake front are very far from each other. They are all well over 3 hrs from each other driving time.

Only Chicago and Milwaukee are close. Chicagoland to Detroit or Toledo is around 5 hrs or more. Both Detroit and Cleveland to Toronto is around 4 hrs.

This "Austin-Tonio" trend of randomly appropriating another city over 100 miles away to boost another in importance is getting really cringe.

That being said, these cities do form an orbit around Cincinnati. There would need to be some kind of serious and regular form of mass transit connecting them (and we all know this isn't happening) along with a shared dominant industry to do this.

[Bluefox]

I scoffed at your thread when I first read the title, but then I got curious. As crazy as it sounds, you might actually be onto something.

I went ahead and looked up some of the towns located along the various corridors connecting Indianapolis to Cincinnati, Cincinnati to Louisville, and Louisville to Indianapolis. To my surprise, many of these towns had shown moderate growth, and some of them had shown quite robust growth. And these are largely in rural areas, which should, under the normal rules, be losing population. I only looked at towns with a 3k+ population though some smaller ones also showed pretty solid growth. Here are some examples of 2010-2020 population growth:

I-74: Indianapolis to Cincinnati (heading towards Cincinnati)
Shelbyville, IN: 4.6% (20,067)
Greensburg, IN: 7.1% (11,492)
Batesville, IN: 10.5% (6,520)
Harrison, OH: 26.9%(9,897)

I-71: Cincinnati to Louisville (heading towards Louisville)
Walton, KY: 50.2% (3,635)
La Grange, KY: 24.8% (8,082)
Crestwood, KY: 36.5% (6,183)

I-65: Louisville to Indianapolis (heading towards Indianapolis)
Sellersburg, IN: 51.9% (9,310)
Scottsburg, IN: 8.9% (7,345)
Seymour, IN (hometown of John Cougar Mellencamp): 23.2% (21,569)
Columbus, IN: 14.6% (50,474)
Franklin, IN: 6.8% (25,313)

I didn't do more metros but I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing in between Cincinnati, Columbus, and Dayton. I suspect this has something to do with the explosion in popularity of exurban areas in recent years, which was accelerated by the pandemic. If you think about it, there's really no better part of the country for an exurban lifestyle than this general area, where the cities are just close enough to each other but not necessarily "too close". A goldilocks zone, if you will. You can live a more bucolic lifestyle and maybe get some more space, but you're never going to be that far away from a large city and in many cases, two or more large cities, so you can still access their benefits/amenities. Whether this trend continues and if so, how much capacity there is for continued growth, who knows. But it's certainly an area to keep an eye on.

[Bluefox]

It’s also kind of cool to think that someone who lives in say Greenburg, IN can be in downtown Indy or downtown Cincinnati in under an hour, and someone who lives in Seymour, IN can be in downtown Indy or downtown Louisville in under an hour.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Bluefox

It’s also kind of cool to think that someone who lives in say Greenburg, IN can be in downtown Indy or downtown Cincinnati in under an hour, and someone who lives in Seymour, IN can be in downtown Indy or downtown Louisville in under an hour.

Yes, that is the BIG advantage of being east of the Mississippi River- cities aren't as far apart, and don't involve hours and hours of driving like you find out west in the Great Plains states.

[ion475]

Originally Posted by Bluefox

I scoffed at your thread when I first read the title, but then I got curious. As crazy as it sounds, you might actually be onto something.

I went ahead and looked up some of the towns located along the various corridors connecting Indianapolis to Cincinnati, Cincinnati to Louisville, and Louisville to Indianapolis. To my surprise, many of these towns had shown moderate growth, and some of them had shown quite robust growth. And these are largely in rural areas, which should, under the normal rules, be losing population. I only looked at towns with a 3k+ population though some smaller ones also showed pretty solid growth. Here are some examples of 2010-2020 population growth:

I-74: Indianapolis to Cincinnati (heading towards Cincinnati)
Shelbyville, IN: 4.6% (20,067)
Greensburg, IN: 7.1% (11,492)
Batesville, IN: 10.5% (6,520)
Harrison, OH: 26.9%(9,897)

I-71: Cincinnati to Louisville (heading towards Louisville)
Walton, KY: 50.2% (3,635)
La Grange, KY: 24.8% (8,082)
Crestwood, KY: 36.5% (6,183)

I-65: Louisville to Indianapolis (heading towards Indianapolis)
Sellersburg, IN: 51.9% (9,310)
Scottsburg, IN: 8.9% (7,345)
Seymour, IN (hometown of John Cougar Mellencamp): 23.2% (21,569)
Columbus, IN: 14.6% (50,474)
Franklin, IN: 6.8% (25,313)

I didn't do more metros but I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing in between Cincinnati, Columbus, and Dayton. I suspect this has something to do with the explosion in popularity of exurban areas in recent years, which was accelerated by the pandemic. If you think about it, there's really no better part of the country for an exurban lifestyle than this general area, where the cities are just close enough to each other but not necessarily "too close". A goldilocks zone, if you will. You can live a more bucolic lifestyle and maybe get some more space, but you're never going to be that far away from a large city and in many cases, two or more large cities, so you can still access their benefits/amenities. Whether this trend continues and if so, how much capacity there is for continued growth, who knows. But it's certainly an area to keep an eye on.

Except that the like of Harrison OH is essentially just outer suburb of Cincy?

I've driven I-65 between Indy and Louisville, and south of Franklin IN it's basically farmlands. The sprawl are unlikely to go further south for another 20 years either as there are still plenty of lands between I-65 to the east and SR-135 (Bargersville area) to the west - an area that's seeing quite a bit of suburban cookie-cutter tract housing right now but will probably not be built up for another 10 years.

South of Columbus IN? It's miles of farmlands. And quite frankly, unless somebody has family in Seymour and doesn't want to move, they won't be commuting to Indy (or Louisville for that matter) from Seymour. The reason why the like of Columbus IN and Seymour grow is that there are actually jobs in those town, i.e. Cummins for the former and Aisin for the latter, that kept both towns somewhat economically vibrant.

Originally Posted by Losfrisco

This "Austin-Tonio" trend of randomly appropriating another city over 100 miles away to boost another in importance is getting really cringe.

That being said, these cities do form an orbit around Cincinnati. There would need to be some kind of serious and regular form of mass transit connecting them (and we all know this isn't happening) along with a shared dominant industry to do this.

But even now Austin and San Antonio haven't exactly form a duo-core urban agglomeration yet, and the two are only 80mi apart downtown-to-downtown. The only thing that came close near Cincy is Cincy-Dayton corridor anyway (~55mi apart downtown-to-downtown), and it's not surprising as the two are not that far apart.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by ion475

Except that the like of Harrison OH is essentially just outer suburb of Cincy?

Harrison is a Cincinnati suburb.