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Many accents from the northern US, mostly the Great Lakes and Upper Midwest, have a similar accent to those in Canada, especially those from Ontario and also Manitoba. They have varying features but a lot of similarities. In Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Manitoba and North Dakota, there is often a long "O" in words like "boat" or "snow". Lots of folks also pronounce the "o" in words like "fox" or "Bob" like an A. I have a friend who pronounced "Scotch" like "scatch."
A lot of folks from these regions might also turn their "T" into a "D" such as "dat dere ting." Which brings us to the "th" where it just sounds like a "t" so words like "three" become "tree."
It makes me wonder, did these accents evolve together or did one influence the other? For example, is it more accurate to say that the accent in Ontario or Manitoba influenced the Upper Midwest or the other way around? Or not at all, and they both just evolved together. And where did this accent even come from? I have heard folks from Buffalo, NY with an accent like this. Did Buffalo have it before Chicago for example?
About the "dat dere ting" phenomenon: it's called th-stopping. English has two "th" sounds: the voiced "th" as in "this", and the voiceless "th" as in "think". For people with th-stopping, the voiced "th" is realized as either a regular "d" sound (with the tongue on the alveolar ridge) or a dental "d" sound (with the tongue pressing against the upper teeth). Similarly, the voiceless "th" becomes either a regular "t" or a dental "t".
The two "th" sounds are fairly rare in languages other than English. (A few other languages that have them are Standard Arabic, Icelandic, and Greek.) So non-native speakers tend to have trouble with them --- and if they live in a relatively insular community, their kids might speak with an accent that doesn't have those sounds, or uses them less often. My guess is that the large-scale immigration of e.g. Italians and Eastern Europeans into the Great Lakes region circa the late 1800s/early 1900s introduced th-stopping into the local accent. But this has happened in a lot of other English dialects too, e.g. the NYC accent, or the Chicano accent. On the other hand, I haven't heard it much in the Canadians I've listened to (though it's possible it exists in areas of e.g. metro Vancouver that have long had large East and South Asian populations).
Many accents from the northern US, mostly the Great Lakes and Upper Midwest, have a similar accent to those in Canada, especially those from Ontario and also Manitoba. They have varying features but a lot of similarities. In Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Manitoba and North Dakota, there is often a long "O" in words like "boat" or "snow". Lots of folks also pronounce the "o" in words like "fox" or "Bob" like an A. I have a friend who pronounced "Scotch" like "scatch."
A lot of folks from these regions might also turn their "T" into a "D" such as "dat dere ting." Which brings us to the "th" where it just sounds like a "t" so words like "three" become "tree."
It makes me wonder, did these accents evolve together or did one influence the other? For example, is it more accurate to say that the accent in Ontario or Manitoba influenced the Upper Midwest or the other way around? Or not at all, and they both just evolved together. And where did this accent even come from? I have heard folks from Buffalo, NY with an accent like this. Did Buffalo have it before Chicago for example?
The Great Lakes cities mainly were initially filled with people moving from east to west, either through the Erie Canal and Buffalo or Southern Ontario, so in my opinion that's how and where the accents were developed (through the mix of peoples) and carried west. I also suspect that even early French settlers, along with English speakers descended from French families, may have contributed to the accent, notably the "deez-dem-doze" pronunciation common in the region. I was surprised when speaking with some people who grew up on the St. Regis reservation (along NY-Quebec border) that they had strong accents similar to Buffalo (particularly Polish-American neighborhoods), an accent not shared further south in that part of NY State. That made me first suspect that French had an influence not generally recognized.
Many accents from the northern US, mostly the Great Lakes and Upper Midwest, have a similar accent to those in Canada, especially those from Ontario and also Manitoba. They have varying features but a lot of similarities. In Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Manitoba and North Dakota, there is often a long "O" in words like "boat" or "snow". Lots of folks also pronounce the "o" in words like "fox" or "Bob" like an A. I have a friend who pronounced "Scotch" like "scatch."
A lot of folks from these regions might also turn their "T" into a "D" such as "dat dere ting." Which brings us to the "th" where it just sounds like a "t" so words like "three" become "tree."
It makes me wonder, did these accents evolve together or did one influence the other? For example, is it more accurate to say that the accent in Ontario or Manitoba influenced the Upper Midwest or the other way around? Or not at all, and they both just evolved together. And where did this accent even come from? I have heard folks from Buffalo, NY with an accent like this. Did Buffalo have it before Chicago for example?
First of all, I don't agree that Southern Ontario and the US cities on the southern shore of the Great Lakes accents sound similar at all.
RE: the accents in Rochester, Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, Toledo, Chicago and to a certain extent Milwaukee, are sometimes call the "Great Lakes accent". Some linguists have theorized these accents originated among the Irish immigrants who dug the Erie Canal in the early 1800s. (ever notice how Irish people call their mothers "Mahm". Very similar to the GL accent's pronunciation of "Mom".) As someone mentioned above, the accent gradually worked its way westward along the Canal and along the shore of the lakes. It did not go in a southerly direction (you don't hear it in cities like Youngstown, OH, Columbus, OH, South Bend, IN or Peoria, IL.
There is definitely a midwest accent, but beyond that a different accent among Midwest States! My Dad was from Michigan, and I heard kind of nasal accent there. My Mom had Wisconsin roots, but the accents were not the same. I still have memories of being a kid and asking my parents why they talked funny. But this was mostly due to my mom being much younger than dad and living in Seattle all her life. I think they called the Seattle accent the newscaster accent because it sounded so universally normal, also notable as the Chicago broadcaster accent, both really not an accent at all. Of course outside of newscasters, Chicago had many accents.
There is definitely a midwest accent, but beyond that a different accent among Midwest States! My Dad was from Michigan, and I heard kind of nasal accent there. My Mom had Wisconsin roots, but the accents were not the same. I still have memories of being a kid and asking my parents why they talked funny. But this was mostly due to my mom being much younger than dad and living in Seattle all her life. I think they called the Seattle accent the newscaster accent because it sounded so universally normal, also notable as the Chicago broadcaster accent, both really not an accent at all. Of course outside of newscasters, Chicago had many accents.
Some parts of Wisconsin have more of a great lakes accent and other parts have more of a Minnesota type accent. Same with Michigan.
Some parts of Wisconsin have more of a great lakes accent and other parts have more of a Minnesota type accent. Same with Michigan.
Fascinating topic. How regional dialects form is really interesting. Mostly human nature, communicating with others in the same dialect which aids in communication.
Some parts of Wisconsin have more of a great lakes accent and other parts have more of a Minnesota type accent. Same with Michigan.
Oh ders no accent in da upper Midwest. Wiscamsin and meeshigan speak normal American dontcha know. I think dey talk dat way cause dey can’t stop shivering from being cold when dey talk. Ohh it sure gets cold up der, oh and does it snow? You betcha it does, even in May.
All kidding aside, Midwest accents have to do with German and Scandinavian heritage. Those heritage groups make up the bulk of the population of Mi, Wi and Mn outside the big cities. The big Midwest cities like Detroit, Chicago or Milwaukee have populations that are somewhat different (many southern people, many from eastern and Southern Europe) and the accents in those metro areas are slightly different because of it.
No they don't. There are few words that are distinctly Canadian, and you never, ever hear those words on the US side, eh? In Soo Michigan they talk exactly like Escanaba or Houghton. In Soo Canada, one mile away, yhey talk just like Vancouver or Halifax.
Canada is pretty-much free of regional accents, except places like the Ottawa Valley or Newfoundland. By contrast, the US has five very distinct accents in the 4-hour drive Michigan to Ilinois via Wisconsin.
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