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It's the southern end of the Northeast. So NJ, PA, DE, MD & DC. New York is in the middle & is a combo of both the Mid-Atlantic and New England (with New England being at the other end of the Northeast).
Virginia is a combination of North & South so some people add it as well.
NYC metro is easily the hot spot with some secondary clusters like Boston, Philly or even New Orleans, but nothing else getting close really. NYC is without a doubt the capital of Italian America.
I don't think the clusters in the Midwest have anything to do with 'where it was OK for catholics to settle' as many other areas have strong clusters of other Catholic groups like Irish, Germans and Polish.
There's often a degree of randomness to it in the sense that individual families can start a community which then draws in further migrants etc. but a common pattern with Italian immigrants is that they were going for industrial jobs and usually not going to settle in primarily agricultural areas in any numbers. So that put them mostly into bigger towns, cities and areas with heavy industrial activity.
The little cluster of Italians for instance in and around the UP of Michigan (which is known for producing guys like Tom Izzo and Steve Mariucci) is directly and strongly linked to the mining industry in that area. Same with that little cluster in Colorado.
NY has huge absolute numbers, but many places have higher % of their population.
NY has huge absolute numbers, but many places have higher % of their population.
CT and RI feel more Italian than NY in the 2020s because they have less racial diversity overall. As a result, Italian-American culture is more prominent in the respective populaces of CT and RI than NY (and NJ).
As Italian as Upstate NY is (from a national standpoint), the dominant groups in that area seem to be German and Irish, although YMMV.
CT and RI feel more Italian than NY in the 2020s because they have less racial diversity overall. As a result, Italian-American culture is more prominent in the respective populaces of CT and RI than NY (and NJ).
As Italian as Upstate NY is (from a national standpoint), the dominant groups in that area seem to be German and Irish, although YMMV.
Sorry but I can't get behind this one. Have you ever been to any part of the NY Metro area? Come to any part of it and you will think differently. Not sure what attributes or points you're using to make that statement but Italian culture has been widely adopted in this country based on the NYC Metro area basically forever. Through food, TV, movies, accents, styles on and on. That is a big part of the American fabric even with all this johnny come lately crap in the last 10-15 years.
Either you're never spent a lot of time in this area or you're just using the less diversity point but even with that neither of those places feel more Italian-American in culture. NYC invented Italian-American culture, let's be real here. Want to see real Italian culture from all parts of the boot? Spend some time anywhere in this area. Even with the mass diversity that exists in these parts, all things Italian run very deep and are still exuded in the local culture.
This is an example of data points not reflecting real life.
Last edited by BigCity76; 04-01-2023 at 09:52 AM..
Sorry but I can't get behind this one. Have you ever been to any part of the NY Metro area? Come to any part of it and you will think differently. Not sure what attributes or points you're using to make that statement but Italian culture has been widely adopted in this country based on the NYC Metro area basically forever. Through food, TV, movies, accents, styles on and on. That is a big part of the American fabric even with all this johnny come lately crap in the last 10-15 years.
Either you're never spent a lot of time in this area or you're just using the less diversity point but even with that neither of those places feel more Italian-American in culture. NYC invented Italian-American culture, let's be real here. Want to see real Italian culture from all parts of the boot? Spend some time anywhere in this area. Even with the mass diversity that exists in these parts, all things Italian run very deep and are still exuded in the local culture.
This is an example of data points not reflecting real life.
Historically, the NYC metro may have felt more Italian than other, smaller metro areas in the Northeast, but as of the current decade, almost every branch of the NYC metro is filled to the brim with people who aren’t even white, let alone Italian-American. It’s 2023, not 1973.
Historically, the NYC metro may have felt more Italian than other, smaller metro areas in the Northeast, but as of the current decade, almost every branch of the NYC metro is filled to the brim with people who aren’t even white, let alone Italian-American. It’s 2023, not 1973.
Italian-Americans in NYC just like other white American groups have simply moved out of the city into the burbs. Suffolk county on Long Island is 21% Italian, quasi-suburban Staten Island is 23%, Monmouth county NJ is 23%, Nassau county is 17% Italian, Bergen is 15% Westchester is 14%, Fairfield CT is 15%, Passaic is 12%.
Those are big numbers given that those are all pretty populous counties. I doubt you'll find as many Italian-Americans concentrated in any other metro in sheer numbers even if in terms of % some counties in the Boston or Philly area or smaller metros like Providence can come close.
Just my 2 cents but Virginia is the quintessential Mid Atlantic State and it's not even close,and here is my reasoning.
The most centralized point on the East Coast fall directly in Virginia somewhere not too far from Richmond. While the term mid Atlantic once described a specific region, it has transformed since. I generally don't consider any area from Baltimore to NYC mid Atlantic, why? Before the industrial revolution yes, after NO. Too much international/European influence has diluted it's American/ Early American tradition. Even religious/culinary traditions in those areas have a lot of European tradition. Weather and Agriculture practices also play a role in why I don't consider those areas mid Atlantic too.
Why Virginia? Virginia for the most part is the most typical American state from a colonial to now stand point. In Virginia you have colonial towns(Williamsburg), southern towns(Farmville), northern built city(Richmond), maritime cities (Norfolk), river towns(Lynchburg), bay cities( Hampton,etc.)
Virginia is the only original state that isn't influenced more one way than the other, it's literally early American culture south/north or better yet middle. Virginia for the most part hasn't been influenced by Europe or European traditions after colonial times. For me mid Atlantic is typical/early American culture uninfluenced and that is Virginia. Virginia also has a strong slave/black culture that is uninfluenced by African/ Caribbean culture like that of the more northern area.
Just my 2 cents but Virginia is the quintessential Mid Atlantic State and it's not even close,and here is my reasoning.
The most centralized point on the East Coast fall directly in Virginia somewhere not too far from Richmond. While the term mid Atlantic once described a specific region, it has transformed since. I generally don't consider any area from Baltimore to NYC mid Atlantic, why? Before the industrial revolution yes, after NO. Too much international/European influence has diluted it's American/ Early American tradition. Even religious/culinary traditions in those areas have a lot of European tradition. Weather and Agriculture practices also play a role in why I don't consider those areas mid Atlantic too.
Why Virginia? Virginia for the most part is the most typical American state from a colonial to now stand point. In Virginia you have colonial towns(Williamsburg), southern towns(Farmville), northern built city(Richmond), maritime cities (Norfolk), river towns(Lynchburg), bay cities( Hampton,etc.)
Virginia is the only original state that isn't influenced more one way than the other, it's literally early American culture south/north or better yet middle. Virginia for the most part hasn't been influenced by Europe or European traditions after colonial times. For me mid Atlantic is typical/early American culture uninfluenced and that is Virginia. Virginia also has a strong slave/black culture that is uninfluenced by African/ Caribbean culture like that of the more northern area.
Just my 2 cents but Virginia is the quintessential Mid Atlantic State and it's not even close,and here is my reasoning.
The most centralized point on the East Coast fall directly in Virginia somewhere not too far from Richmond. While the term mid Atlantic once described a specific region, it has transformed since. I generally don't consider any area from Baltimore to NYC mid Atlantic, why? Before the industrial revolution yes, after NO. Too much international/European influence has diluted it's American/ Early American tradition. Even religious/culinary traditions in those areas have a lot of European tradition. Weather and Agriculture practices also play a role in why I don't consider those areas mid Atlantic too.
Why Virginia? Virginia for the most part is the most typical American state from a colonial to now stand point. In Virginia you have colonial towns(Williamsburg), southern towns(Farmville), northern built city(Richmond), maritime cities (Norfolk), river towns(Lynchburg), bay cities( Hampton,etc.)
Virginia is the only original state that isn't influenced more one way than the other, it's literally early American culture south/north or better yet middle. Virginia for the most part hasn't been influenced by Europe or European traditions after colonial times. For me mid Atlantic is typical/early American culture uninfluenced and that is Virginia. Virginia also has a strong slave/black culture that is uninfluenced by African/ Caribbean culture like that of the more northern area.
I disagree with alot of this. What you are saying here, the bolded anyway, is the OPPOSITE what I think of the Mid-Atlantic.
The Mid-Atlantic was the original melting pot of America, from the Dutch in New York, the Quakers of Pennsylvania, the Swedes of Delaware and if you want to stretch it, the Catholics of Maryland. Not sure where you got Mid-Atlantic is the most typical American state or the least influenced by Europe???
Not to mention Virginia is hardly the "most typical American state from a colonial....". Virginia is a unique state, its where the American South began, its history, traditions and government are different from the majority of the Mid-Atlantic states to this very day. The strong black culture you mention is a historic sign of the South, not the Mid-Atlantic. Indeed, I would say Virginia and West Virginia are the least Mid-Atlantic. And Richmond is a northern built city? What?
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