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Old 05-03-2023, 01:28 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
10,106 posts, read 9,961,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
I thought that townships are a subset of counties, not an alternative to them.

I.e. there are counties with townships, and counties without townships.
Yes, you are right. Townships are subordinate to counties.
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Old 05-03-2023, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey
12,159 posts, read 7,997,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Yes, you are right. Townships are subordinate to counties.
Depends on where. In MA, CT and RI .. this is not true.
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Old 05-03-2023, 01:39 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
10,106 posts, read 9,961,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILLYUPTOWN View Post
What type of set-up do you prefer and why? Which is the better system, economically as well as for the delivery of services? What are the drawbacks of both? Experiences and any other opinions welcome; particularly on incorporation vs unincorporation.


County Governments as they exist in the South and West where the services and schools are controlled by the county; cities are not independent (except a couple of cities like Baltimore, St. Louis and Virginia). Incorporation vs Un-incorporation is a thing.

Township system of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Michigan and other Northeast and Midwest places where the County only counts for courts and other relatively minor things but the schools are run by the township as is zoning and most local services. Unincorporation doesn't exist in this system. Cities exist under the county but are usually have home rule or something similar.

**I'll even throw in the Town system of the Northeast in places like Massachusetts and New York where the Counties matter even less than in the township system and all services are controlled by local entity.
In New York, a Town is the equivalent of a Township. New Jersey has a very unique in that cities, town, borough, townships are not at all subordinate of one another, and no do encroach one another.
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Old 05-03-2023, 01:52 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
10,106 posts, read 9,961,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts View Post
Depends on where. In MA, CT and RI .. this is not true.
Those states don't have townships. New England generally doesn't have townships.
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Old 05-03-2023, 02:09 PM
 
Location: D.C. / I-95
2,750 posts, read 2,418,592 times
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Township/town system> county
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Old 05-03-2023, 02:21 PM
 
Location: On the Waterfront
1,676 posts, read 1,084,311 times
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Every little town in NJ is its own fiefdom. Always been this way. The county level services are there and there is a lot of county pride in certain parts of the state but overall, towns rule NJ by far. You pay for it in taxes that's for damn sure.
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Old 05-03-2023, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,269 posts, read 10,591,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Those states don't have townships. New England generally doesn't have townships.
Towns or Townships (and boroughs in PA and NJ) are the same in fundamental concept. It's just a matter of nomenclature.

It's local level municipal incorporation and governance, although the authority level of that local governance differs depending on state law.

And yes, don't get me started on municipal fragmentation. Pennsylvania, in particular, is only second to Illinois in the number of individual municipalities and units of government and decision-making bodies (often helmed by people with zero management experience and vision for broader cooperation and planning).

The positive side to this is hyper-local community and identity that has a certain quaint charm, but in 2023, it is increasingly antiquated without much more regional coordination.

Last edited by Duderino; 05-03-2023 at 06:32 PM..
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Old 05-03-2023, 07:33 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
10,106 posts, read 9,961,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
Towns or Townships (and boroughs in PA and NJ) are the same in fundamental concept. It's just a matter of nomenclature.

It's local level municipal incorporation and governance, although the authority level of that local governance differs depending on state law.

And yes, don't get me started on municipal fragmentation. Pennsylvania, in particular, is only second to Illinois in the number of individual municipalities and units of government and decision-making bodies (often helmed by people with zero management experience and vision for broader cooperation and planning).

The positive side to this is hyper-local community and identity that has a certain quaint charm, but in 2023, it is increasingly antiquated without much more regional coordination.
NJ is a bit a different than PA. NJ has cities, towns, townships, villages, boroughs, but are even more geographically and politically fragmented than PA. No village, borough or town is within a township. No political entity is subordinate to another in NJ. It's like a hybrid of Northeast/Midwest and New England.
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Old 05-03-2023, 08:00 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,242,409 times
Reputation: 10141
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILLYUPTOWN View Post
What type of set-up do you prefer and why? Which is the better system, economically as well as for the delivery of services? What are the drawbacks of both? Experiences and any other opinions welcome; particularly on incorporation vs unincorporation.


County Governments as they exist in the South and West where the services and schools are controlled by the county; cities are not independent (except a couple of cities like Baltimore, St. Louis and Virginia). Incorporation vs Un-incorporation is a thing.

Township system of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Michigan and other Northeast and Midwest places where the County only counts for courts and other relatively minor things but the schools are run by the township as is zoning and most local services. Unincorporation doesn't exist in this system. Cities exist under the county but are usually have home rule or something similar.

**I'll even throw in the Town system of the Northeast in places like Massachusetts and New York where the Counties matter even less than in the township system and all services are controlled by local entity.
New York has both county and town (town is short for township) governments so maybe I can help.

County governments tend to be weaker in New York (at one time they had almost no power at all except courts) than other states but they can still provide some regional services - almost like a regional metropolitan area. For instance, my county of Suffolk has taken over police services from half the towns in the county, has a first rate public park system and helps the towns preserve farmland.

I have relatives in Connecticut where there is no county government (just towns and cities) and it is my belief that if CT had county government they would have more parkland.

Towns and cities are the main forms of local government in New York controlling such things like zoning and land use. Outside of the largest cities like NYC and Buffalo, I think this form of government is closer to the people. There is even a more local form of government in New York (and Vermont) called incorporated villages.

IMHO, New York has the best of both worlds, both county and town governments. The one drawback is by having both, it can be costly. But New York is going to be a high tax state anyway, might as well get something for your money.
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Old 05-04-2023, 09:02 PM
 
327 posts, read 222,192 times
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I prefer stronger county governance to stronger town governance. The best analogy for county vs. town government is supervisor vs. employee. You can ask an employee to complete a task for you, but even if that employee agrees to assist you himself/herself, you may still need to solicit and obtain approval/authorization from his/her supervisor to receive the necessary assistance or support to ensure no resource constraints. In the end, you may have been better off going to the supervisor directly, instead of the employee.
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