North Carolina is the dividing line between Southern US, Mid-Atlantic, and Northern US. (house, live in)
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It is more nuanced than just geography. IMO, essentially the fast growing metros in the Southeast are feeling more and more disconnected from traditional Southern culture as time passes. This is especially true for those metros that have seen many decades of huge influx from metros outside of the South. The Piedmont of NC, and specifically the greater Raleigh, Durham and Charlotte areas fit that bill.
Good point - which was a big theme of what I meant in the original post too. The metro areas in NC continue to grow and be pushed out causing "Southern" influence to retract. My point with this thread was that NC is the true dividing line of all 3 regions now. Where they all intersect. People used to say it was NOVA but that's a firm disagree at this point. I just consider NOVA and that part of VA to be the Mid-Atlantic with little Southern influence (it's still there everyone so please do not rage at me in response). I would say in the early 2000's and early 2010's NOVA was still the fair cutoff but within the last decade it's considered to shift further south - hence NC being the true "cusp state".
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
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Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl
It is more nuanced than just geography. IMO, essentially the fast growing metros in the Southeast are feeling more and more disconnected from traditional Southern culture as time passes. This is especially true for those metros that have seen many decades of huge influx from metros outside of the South. The Piedmont of NC, and specifically the greater Raleigh, Durham and Charlotte areas fit that bill.
I just see those areas of NC and Atlanta as new South, but the South just the same. They're developed like Southern cities. I know the boundaries of the South are eternally debated on CD and there is always a constant discussion over it in some form or another in this forum, but as you said, it's all very nuanced. When travelling to the South, this is what I pick up on.
-Maryland - Mason Dixon, plenty of southern overlap, not firmly in the South.
-Virginia - getting warmer, DC beltway feels like a northern pace of life with a blend of sunbelt. South of the James River, you've arrived in the South. Appalachian parts undoubtedly firmly in the South.
-North Carolina - The whole state is firmly in the South. Lots of transplants from everywhere in the cities and suburbs and the diverse topography make it a very nuanced state.
-South Carolina - you're the deep South now.
Nova was the original cutoff, but within the last decade it's been pushed more south. My point is that there isn't a real hard line between the North and the South. It's a gradient that slowly transitions into areas that are 100% Southern culture, or Southern culture is still the dominant influence.
NC right now is the true "cusp" state where all 3 of these cultures (North, Mid-Atlantic, and South) ALL meet (the split) and then whether you go north, west, or south is when these cultures have single dominance.
I agree on most counts. Therre's no hard and fast line (even the Mason Dixon lol), and I think NC has a valid argument to be considered mid-Atlantic.
I just see those areas of NC and Atlanta as new South, but the South just the same. They're developed like Southern cities. I know the boundaries of the South are eternally debated on CD and there is always a constant discussion over it in some form or another in this forum, but as you said, it's all very nuanced. When travelling to the South, this is what I pick up on.
-Maryland - Mason Dixon, plenty of southern overlap, not firmly in the South.
-Virginia - getting warmer, DC beltway feels like a northern pace of life with a blend of sunbelt. South of the James River, you've arrived in the South. Appalachian parts undoubtedly firmly in the South.
-North Carolina - The whole state is firmly in the South. Lots of transplants from everywhere in the cities and suburbs and the diverse topography make it a very nuanced state.
-South Carolina - you're the deep South now.
I disagree with this. This is actually how I would've placed the cutoffs about ~20-30 years ago. However over time there's been such a significant demographic shift that it needs to be revised.
Maryland - The OG "Mason Dixon" line, nowadays I would place about 5%-20% Southern culture there. Most of this place is still very much "The North" while the coast line is the Mid-Atlantic.
Virginia - Yes, getting warmer, however still not "The South". NOVA is absolutely not a Southern dominant part of the country. I can say, yeah, Richmond has some pretty Southern feeling parts but still not fully "The South". Right here I would say that VA is dominantly Mid-Atlantic with a touch of Southern influences. Appalachian culture isn't "Southern Culture" either. Appalachia is it's own entity, you can still see areas that look/feel the same all the way up as far as Vermont as they do in Western North Carolina because of this.
North Carolina - The actual modern dividing line of The South, Mid-Atlantic, and the North. Tide-water region is definitely the Mid-Atlantic dominant area. Piedmont is a 50/50 of all 3 of those. Western area is 80-100% Appalachia with maybe a little Southern and Northern influence.
South Carolina - This is where Southern dominant culture begins. Greenville area is like 35% Appalachia, 15% Northern influenced, and 50% Southern influenced. Myrtle Beach is part mid-Altantic but mostly the South. Charleston is maybe like 15% Mid-Atlantic culture and 85% Southern influenced.
This is where I stand, as someone who visits all around this region (not just saying that either) I really feel like SC and below is the "Southern" culture dominance of the USA now.
I agree on most counts. Therre's no hard and fast line (even the Mason Dixon lol), and I think NC has a valid argument to be considered mid-Atlantic.
Yep, I agree with this. The coastline of Northern NC is certaintly very mixed between all 3 of these regions. On Nag's Head there's like 5 or 6 local pizza parlors. That is NOT a Southern Characteristic at all. In fact I'd go as far as to say NC is such a hodgepodge of all of these cultures that it literally could just be the "Texas" of the East Coast.
The American South
Georgia
South Carolina
Alabama
Mississippi
Tennessee
North Carolina
Louisiana
Arkansas (including Missouri south of U.S. Route 60)
Kentucky (minus Cincinnati suburbs, but including Missouri Bootheel))
North Florida (north of Orlando)
South Virginia (from just north of Charlottesville on southward, including most of Shenandoah Valley and the part of West Virginia south of Charleston)
I disagree with this. This is actually how I would've placed the cutoffs about ~20-30 years ago. However over time there's been such a significant demographic shift that it needs to be revised.
Maryland - The OG "Mason Dixon" line, nowadays I would place about 5%-20% Southern culture there. Most of this place is still very much "The North" while the coast line is the Mid-Atlantic.
Virginia - Yes, getting warmer, however still not "The South". NOVA is absolutely not a Southern dominant part of the country. I can say, yeah, Richmond has some pretty Southern feeling parts but still not fully "The South". Right here I would say that VA is dominantly Mid-Atlantic with a touch of Southern influences. Appalachian culture isn't "Southern Culture" either. Appalachia is it's own entity, you can still see areas that look/feel the same all the way up as far as Vermont as they do in Western North Carolina because of this.
North Carolina - The actual modern dividing line of The South, Mid-Atlantic, and the North. Tide-water region is definitely the Mid-Atlantic dominant area. Piedmont is a 50/50 of all 3 of those. Western area is 80-100% Appalachia with maybe a little Southern and Northern influence.
South Carolina - This is where Southern dominant culture begins. Greenville area is like 35% Appalachia, 15% Northern influenced, and 50% Southern influenced. Myrtle Beach is part mid-Altantic but mostly the South. Charleston is maybe like 15% Mid-Atlantic culture and 85% Southern influenced.
This is where I stand, as someone who visits all around this region (not just saying that either) I really feel like SC and below is the "Southern" culture dominance of the USA now.
I can't understand why people (mostly on CD) think Nova is southern. It feels different than the traditional south.
I can't understand why people (mostly on CD) think Nova is southern. It feels different than the traditional south.
It's probably because they aren't actually from the "real" South. NOVA has Wegmans and Wawa. There is absolutely nothing "Southern" about that.
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