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I've been to Boston three times in the last six months. The two things that stand out to me on a demographic level are:
1) You hear Portuguese literally everywhere.
2) I can count the number of African Americans I saw in all three trips on my fingers and toes. But of course you see a lot of people with black skin that have foreign accents.
How would you ever possibly know that lol. Like...unless someone not only speaks but tells you there family history...how would you know?
There's 194,000 Black people in Boston that is 28.8% of the city. About 35% are foreign born. There is no neighborhood in Boston where the predominate language is not English other than Chinatown.
Of 125,166 Black Americans aged 18-64 in the city.... 76,393 (61.0%) Speak ONLY English. 100,141 Speak English "very well" or Only Speak English. So that is 80.0%. This increases to 112,469 who speak English "well"...89.9%
My takeaway is you didn't visit predominately black areas or speak to more than 3 black people. There are many accented black people though mostly in Mattapan or in Collegiate areas.
I do hear Portuguese in Boston but definitely not everywhere- more of the Brazilian population is in Somerville and Framingham, not in Boston. And the Portuguese are more so located in the South Coast and towards Providence, not so much in Boston. Far more Spanish (#2 language in the city), Cape Verdean Kriolu (also known as simply Creole or Kabuverdianu) and Haitian Kreyol Speakers than actual Portuguese speakers. You're more likely to go to a public event and get translations into Kriolu or Kreyol than Portuguese. But Kriolu sounds like Portuguese.
Even still- half the people you think are African Americans are actually Jamaicans, Bajans, Trinis, or other people from the Caribbean like Grenada USVI etc. Sometimes they're mixed with African American But that's kind of my point- you cant know- I don't even know my own friend's ethnicity.
This table says of Black people over age 5 in Boston 182,870... 114,339 speak ONLY English at home, 62.5% . But in my social circle its like 95%. I very rarely interact with folks who don't speak English well which I guess is by virtue of my social circle/life/age. IN fact the only mayor or city councilors whos first languages arent English isMayor Wu- who is a native Mandarin speaker. Our Haitian, two Dominican, and Bajan-Jamaican and Mexican-Italian Councilor were all native English speakers born in Boston (or New York)
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 08-31-2023 at 02:20 PM..
Very similar situation happened in St. Louis and Cincinnati. I don't know what it is, but the old river cities never attracted many Latinos until very, very recently. It's only been the last few years that St. Louis even has a barely visible Latino community, mainly because it's nearly doubled to around 100k in the last decade. I'd say the lack of Latino growth has definitely hurt the stabilization/growth of these cities and metros compared to other older industrial cities like Chicago, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, etc.
Pretty much. Cities like Chicago, Philadelphia and Milwaukee stabilized sooner (and the former two even grew) because of Latino immigrants that Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis missed out on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goat314
Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and St. Louis would probably be very different places today had they caught that early Latino wave. I'd imagine St. Louis would have been well over 3 million in the metro, while Cincinnati and Pittsburgh would be inching towards the 3 million mark by now too.
St. Louis absolutely, and Cincinnati probably, but I still think it'd be harder for Pittsburgh than the other two. Mexicans are the largest Latino ethnicity in the U.S. by far, but in spite of that, they just don't move to the Northeast in large numbers. Of the 51 major MSAs with Mexican immigration data from 2020-2022, New York ranked 9th in the number of Mexican immigrants, and it's the only MSA in the Northeast that even ranked in the top 20, much less the top 10. Otherwise, Philadelphia ranked 25th, Washington DC 28th, Boston 39th, Baltimore 45th, Providence 47th, Pittsburgh 49th, Hartford 50th, and Rochester 51st. (There is no data for Buffalo.)
I venture that the recent Latino growth in Pittsburgh came primarily from Puerto Rican, Caribbean and South American Latinos moving west from the coast, rather than Mexicans moving east, because the Latino population has exploded in eastern Pennsylvania. Reading is almost 70% Hispanic, Allentown and Hazleton have Hispanic majorities, and York and Lancaster have Hispanic pluralities. In fact, Pennsylvania now has more than 1,000,000 Hispanics, and the fastest-growing Hispanic population of any state with at least that many. (Though "Latino" and "Hispanic" mean different things, there's enough overlap between the two to draw reasonable conclusions.)
By comparison, Mexicans have immigrated in large numbers to "Greater Texas," so I'd venture that the recent Latino growth in St. Louis came primarily from Mexicans moving north. Just as Mexicans have moved north on I-35 to Kansas City, they're now beginning to move north(east) on I-44 to St. Louis.
How would you ever possibly know that lol. Like...unless someone not only speaks but tells you there family history...how would you know?
)
You know me BBMM. I will always default to the data. Whatever the data says is the ballpark of what is actually there as opposed to what my eyes see. But as an outsider going in, those were my observations as to the feel of the city.
You know me BBMM. I will always default to the data. Whatever the data says is the ballpark of what is actually there as opposed to what my eyes see. But as an outsider going in, those were my observations as to the feel of the city.
I know you stayed in Roslindale- a diverse area (mostly on the east side) but certainly not majority black. I used to live there- most people definitely speak English, with Spanish being second due to the enlarged Dominican population. Just wondering where else you stayed and the nature of the visit.
In areas like Everett or Malden, you will find high concentrations of Haitians and Brazilians speaking Portuguese. Same with Somerville (but Somerville is not only majority white it is much whiter than those two). I also think this extends to Uber drivers and healthcare workers to a very large degree.
Whereas Franklin Field, Dorchester or Codman Square, Dorchester is an area of pretty much 80-85% Black English Speakers. With Franklin Field/West of Washington being more African American and Codman Square being more West Indian.
That is sort of the beauty of Boston, most all the neighborhoods are fully self-contained and functional
(i.e. Roxbury alone has
multiple train stations
a college
an athletic center
public housing, a mall
3 supermarkets
goodwill
dispensaries
bars/restaruants
co-working
3 gyms
a boxing gym
2 libraries
several parks
recreation centers w/pools
multiple high schools
museum
multiple post offices etc)
^most of this could be said about many neighborhoods.
Because they are towns the feel and experience vary greatly from one area to another. Even if only 1 mile apart. People don't have to leave their neighborhoods for anything.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 09-01-2023 at 09:09 AM..
Interestingly, up until last month LA did not have nonstop service to the largest city in Latin America—São Paulo. Still does not have nonstop service to the 3rd and 4th largest cities in Latin America, Buenos Aires and Rio de Janeiro.
Mexico City is the largest city in Latin America (i.e. cultural influence). Sao Paulo is largest in South America.
And Canada CMAs: Latino population / Total population (#Rank if added to table above with USA)
1. Toronto: 156,455 / 6,202,225 (#42)
2. Montreal: 137,850 / 4,291,732 (#43)
3. Vancouver: 51,500 / 2,642,825 (#59)
4. Calgary: 34,395 / 1,481,806 (#61)
5. Edmonton: 21,960 / 1,418,118 (#62)
6. Ottawa: 20,620 / 1,488,307 (#63)
Things that jump out at me:
1. How few Latinos there are in general. I even did a double-take to make sure I didn't have the wrong number for Toronto. But yep, only 156,455 Latinos. For comparison, my nondescript suburban county in the DC metro (Prince William County) has 146,341 people with barely over 500k people. To be nearly tied with a metro of 6.2 million is bonkers.
2. The notable gap between Calgary and Edmonton
3. Vancouver's 51k is very low. It's less than Yakima Metro. I would have expected more given the cosmopolitan nature of the city
4. Latinos seem to prefer Montreal (I assume Romance language connection?)
Canada has a border and a immigration policy that bans low education immigrants. The US has no border, and even in legal immigration gives preference to family reunification over skilled migrants.
Mexico City is the largest city in Latin America (i.e. cultural influence). Sao Paulo is largest in South America.
San Paulo is the largest city in the Americas (12 million in the city) metro area in Latin America (22 million) and home to the most populous subregion (San Paulo state with over 40 million) in the Americas. It is also the largest city in the Southern Hemisphere.
Things that jump out at me:
1. Portland's Latino population is quite large. I wouldn't have expected it to be so close to Seattle's.
2. The gap between Houston and Dallas is bigger than expected. Houston MSA is now 40% Latino and getting more Latino by the year, while Dallas is 30% Latino and largely stuck there.
3. I expected Charlotte to be much higher since I've heard so much about the Hispanic population boom there. 299k and below Portland is a surprise.
4. Philadelphia seems so low given both (a) proximity to New York and New Jersey and (b) the Latinization of so many Pennsylvania mid-sized towns like Reading, Hazleton, York, Lancaster. For some reason, Latinos don't seem to want to set up roots in Philadelphia but are doing so elsewhere in the vicinity.
5. Why does Cleveland have 2.5x more Latinos than Pittsburgh?
6. Kansas City and Oklahoma City are seeing major Latino booms as many counties in the Texas Panhandle and North Texas become heavily Latino.
7. Jacksonville has so few Latinos for being just above the Orlando/Tampa blobs. It even has fewer as a proportion than Raleigh and even a lower amount than similarly-sized Milwaukee. Very odd.
What many have not mentioned is that Pittsburgh has always had a larger Asian population than Hispanic (partially due to Carnegie-Mellon and University of Pittsburgh). As I am Peruvian-American who grew up north of Pittsburgh, I can also say there is a larger Argentine population in the Pittsburgh metro area that sometimes do not consider themselves Latino/Hispanic, and the older factory industry was more focused on European immigration (such as Pittsburgh having the largest Croat-American population in the country) than the later Hispanic growth.
As for Philadelphia, it has always been a center population for Puerto Ricans with the second largest population in the US (after NY), and it is still growing.
Things that jump out at me:
1. Portland's Latino population is quite large. I wouldn't have expected it to be so close to Seattle's.
2. The gap between Houston and Dallas is bigger than expected. Houston MSA is now 40% Latino and getting more Latino by the year, while Dallas is 30% Latino and largely stuck there.
3. I expected Charlotte to be much higher since I've heard so much about the Hispanic population boom there. 299k and below Portland is a surprise. 4. Philadelphia seems so low given both (a) proximity to New York and New Jersey and (b) the Latinization of so many Pennsylvania mid-sized towns like Reading, Hazleton, York, Lancaster. For some reason, Latinos don't seem to want to set up roots in Philadelphia but are doing so elsewhere in the vicinity.
5. Why does Cleveland have 2.5x more Latinos than Pittsburgh?
6. Kansas City and Oklahoma City are seeing major Latino booms as many counties in the Texas Panhandle and North Texas become heavily Latino.
7. Jacksonville has so few Latinos for being just above the Orlando/Tampa blobs. It even has fewer as a proportion than Raleigh and even a lower amount than similarly-sized Milwaukee. Very odd.
1. The majority of Latinos in the Lehigh Valley, Easton, and Reading area have been priced out of New York and Northern New Jersey and have moved to NEPA because it's cheaper and is an easier commute than Philadelphia.
2. A lot of them are aware of how cheaper it is to live outside the city and have a better QOL rather than moving to Hunting Park, Fairhill or Kensington and I can't really blame them. The Middle Class Latinos live in Juniata and the lower NE (Parts of Frankford, Mayfair, Oxford Circle, Rhawnhurst, Homlesburg). There are still a few remaining in Spring Garden (which believe it or not, used to be a rough predominantly Puerto Rican neighborhood 30 years ago).
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