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This thread severely disturbed me for one reason: While there were good comments made, many of the comments were made in ignorance of the actual data and statistics. If you read through it you will find one commenter who continues to say "Read the facts in history" . . . there is no such thing, ask any historian and s/he will tell you that History is simply what one person thinks occurs, someone's opinion. There is biases in writing, history included.
However, what we can do is look to the laws that are set in place and the problems that face us now. As it stands now, Native Americans do not have a sovereign nation status because no matter what they do (on reservation or not) their actions are dictated by the plenary power of the American Government.
Look at the relationship that deals with Trust land versus Fee-Simple Land (if you don't know what these are, I suggest finding out before commenting on Indian Land Tenure). Also read up on how the BIA and the DoI actually work in relation to Native Americans.
Just as a quick fyi, Native American does NOT mean anyone who was born on American soil (as one person asserts in the previous thread), that would make you American. Native American refers to the people who were 'native' to the Americas when European and Russian pioneers came to America. Native American does not just include Indians, but also Hawaiians, Aleuts, and Eskimos as well as some native Mexican Indians in southern Texas. There are THEORIES that suggest that Native Americans came over from Asia, however, if you review Native belief systems, many nations will be titled as First Nations or First People, because as long as that people can remember, they have always been here. Take this into account when regarding them, don't assume that they believe your theories to theirs.
As for human nature (which one person in the thread asserts is going to be always negative) this can be long thread on the nature of human beings that will be highly controversial (read Locke, Hobbes, Calvin, or any other philosopher). Also, don't assume that every nation has had fights or wars, the Inupiat Eskimos have never had major fights with other nations (as they are in the remote regions of Alaska), they were never able to participate in fighting against the European invaders (as they were brought into the American government after the real fights had happened), they never really had time to do much fighting amongst each other for they were too busy surviving, heck, they don't even have swear words in their language.
Many people can say they want assimilation, that one nation, one people is better than many divided, multicultural ethnicities, however, in practice, we have OBVIOUSLY seen this to be untrue. Don't for one second forget that racism is still intact and alive. This was brought up in the thread, however, easily dismissed for the want of the dismissal of reservations. People say that these tragedies that occurred to Native peoples happened well over a hundred, some two hundred years ago; this is wrong. Did people know that American Indians are rated as being the poorest people in the nation, yet as a people, they have the highest rate of enrollment into the U.S. military. There is nuclear waste on the Inupiat Eskimos homeland that has been buried in an unmarked mound for the last four-five decades that is being shown to have caused a severe increase in cancer. The nuclear waste was put there by the American government in 1963 against the will of the native village near-by.
I can continue if people want for the atrocities done within the last decade towards specifically Native people. I want to mention, however, that there were comments made about how every race has gone through prejudice, what makes this one unique. Wait, when did any form of prejudice become okay to allow? You cannot quantify and compare one atrocity to another, what you can do is work to prevent them from happening again as well as work to right the wrong that was done. Just because you may not have done it directly doesn't mean that you are free from the burdens your fore-fathers put on you. Work towards what is considered to be the greater good.
The thread ended with the belief that it was played out, that because one cannot make change in a thread towards the better good that it should be ended. Realize that discourse is the first step to solving a problem. Many of the people who wrote on that thread didn't understand culture and what it means to people, what pride means to the Native community, the difference between fee and trust lands, what the Allotment Act has done to current American Indians, heck people were commenting on reservations as if they new what life on it was like, yet admitted that they had maybe been on one once. People were making decisions about how they felt on an entire group of people on one or two life experiences with several people. I could go on to talk about self-fulfilling prophecies (something you should research) if you really want to know what probably happened. It just shows that public needs to know what is happening, and to know what the statistics are, not the facts, because in my opinion, there is nothing that can't be disproven, especially when it comes to history and philosophy.
I look forward to further discourse on this subject, and do not plan to end this discussion.
Im infatuated with Native American culture and history. Sadly, the tribes that were in my region of the country (ie Potawatomie, Illini, Sauk, Fox, Miami, Chippewa, Pawnee, etc) have long since moved out (many forceably), so I dont come into contact with them. I have a coworker who moved here from North Dakota who is a Lakota indian, and I spend a lot of time talking to him about his ancestry, its fascinating. Our house is decorated with a lot of Native American stuff, too.
The ones in NY can be greedy. They demanded $1 from the state for every car that drives over "their" land. It's ridiculous.
It's just not fair how they aren't subject to the same laws as everyone else. When my family came over from Italy 50 years ago, they settled in a neighborhood that was largely Jewish. I'm sure they had never met Jews back in Italy, but they became friendly with them. They did not expect to live on an "Italian Reservation" and ignore state laws.
The ones in NY can be greedy. They demanded $1 from the state for every car that drives over "their" land. It's ridiculous.
It's just not fair how they aren't subject to the same laws as everyone else. When my family came over from Italy 50 years ago, they settled in a neighborhood that was largely Jewish. I'm sure they had never met Jews back in Italy, but they became friendly with them. They did not expect to live on an "Italian Reservation" and ignore state laws.
What??? What??? Native Americans were forced onto reservations and forced to assimilate. They had misguided Christian missionaries "converting " them from their "heathen" and "savage" ways. They finally accomplished their goal by removing their "Indian-ness" and crushing their entire culture. Music, Art, and some Native languages that have been lost forever. I suggest you read the book, "500 Nations" and re-learn some of the totally incomplete history you were taught in school. Oh, and greedy? Look up what the government did in New York when they violated a treaty to put in the Kinzua Dam. And even if they were greedy, they had VERY good teachers. BTW, $1 is a small price to pay to go on "their" land(as you put it). I think they got less than that for Manhattan.
Last edited by Tiki Girl; 06-21-2008 at 12:02 AM..
Reason: spelling
I have a great deal of respect for native Americans and feel they should be the most honored of people. Billions, even Trillions, should be spent in reparations for them to help restore their high place in this country. They should replace all Conservatives in political office and in Congress as well.
The ones in NY can be greedy. They demanded $1 from the state for every car that drives over "their" land. It's ridiculous.
It's just not fair how they aren't subject to the same laws as everyone else. When my family came over from Italy 50 years ago, they settled in a neighborhood that was largely Jewish. I'm sure they had never met Jews back in Italy, but they became friendly with them. They did not expect to live on an "Italian Reservation" and ignore state laws.
Technically, Native American land is a sovereign nation and the Indian nation's don't have to recognize or abide by state laws of any kind. They are supposed to be self governed and only need to recognize their own laws and I believe Federal law. State government has no jurisdiction whatsoever on American Indian soil
Technically, Native American land is a sovereign nation and the Indian nation's don't have to recognize or abide by state laws of any kind. They are supposed to be self governed and only need to recognize their own laws and I believe Federal law. State government has no jurisdiction whatsoever on American Indian soil
Actually, the state has a lot of influence on American Indian land. If the land isn't in Trust status, the state has the right to tax the land (which it usually does at a large price, forcing the natives to sell their land to non-natives). Also, the American Indians need permission from the state to build any form of gambling/casino business, which is ridiculous, that should remain in the power of the Federal Government. There are lots of things that the state can infringe on (and it does, like with taxation on utilities).
You should never generalize an entire group of people based on the way politicians act. "Greedy" is a term that you have given to an entire group of people, that's a form of discrimination. Remember, this nation has done a lot of mistreatment towards Native Americans, does that mean that the Native Americans still have a right to generalize towards the Anglo-Saxon Americans for the grievances done in the past? Remember, if you want to hold one group of people to a certain standard (social-wise), hold yourself to it as well.
In reaction to holding everyone to the same standard, there are many different responses. The last time that the government attempted to get rid of reservations, American Indians entered an era called 'Termination'. If you don't know about this time and wish to understand the subject a bit more, read up on it (or it might be on Wiki :-P). Some Native Americans haven't pursued sovereign nation status (Alaskan Natives). It should always be remembered, though, that this nation is not their nation, they can hold true to their beliefs. And also remember, they do not have sovereignty yet, the USFG still dictates most of what they do.
Please, more, more, this is a good subject to discuss!
A good friend of mine is married to a Native American Indian woman from Nebraska. Currently they live on a Reservation. My friend also has a legal background and does extensive research on this subject. I also have another friend that is well acquainted with the top leadership of the Mashantucket Pequots in Connecticut.
According to research done and based upon the way the original treaties were written and then signed only the Federal government has any legal jurisdiction over the Indian nations. States, counties and towns are not supposed to be imposing any of their will onto the Native American's on their land. If they are then it is illegal laws created by these governments that conflict with the Treaties and Federal law.
We've seen a lot of laws get created in recent years that violate other laws and contradict original laws already on the books. Look at how the Constitution is being trashed by the Politicians and it is the Supreme law of our land.
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