Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
All kidding aside, I've enjoyed my visits to Alabama. Don't have a thing in the world against it.
Nor do I against Kentucky, although I have only driven through once (and it was rural parts on the way to St. Louis from Tennessee). I actually do not know that much about the state at all, but I know how it's perceived in Alabama (see earlier post).
Have you ever been to Kentucky? I noticed you have left out Arkansas and North Carolina as well. Why is that?
I consider those states to be "kind of southern", but not part of the "deep south" - kind of like Kentucky. But, like I said in my last post, I was informing of typical lower-Alabama impressions of what "the south" is. You don't necessarily need to have been somewhere to know what the impressions of that place are. For instance, I have impressions of NYC (correct or incorrect), but have never been there. Now I have been to Arkansas a few times, and NC once. Have not been to all parts of either state though.
I consider those states to be "kind of southern", but not part of the "deep south" - kind of like Kentucky. But, like I said in my last post, I was informing of typical lower-Alabama impressions of what "the south" is. You don't necessarily need to have been somewhere to know what the impressions of that place are. For instance, I have impressions of NYC (correct or incorrect), but have never been there. Now I have been to Arkansas a few times, and NC once. Have not been to all parts of either state though.
Ok so you have to be "deep south" to be Southern I take it?
Ok so you have to be "deep south" to be Southern I take it?
Well, it's all relative in the first place from person to person, but "southern" (at least in my opinion) is somewhat parallel with "deep south". However, I'm not really referring to the "deep south" geographically, but more in the atmospheric "feel" that a state carries. In my opinion, the states I listed (MS, AL, LA, GA, TN, SC, and FL - except for south FL) carry that general "feel". Arkansas, North Carloina, and Kentucky (from both experience and word of mouth) carry that feel to a point, but not near as much as the states I listed. Therefore, I would categorize them as a hybrid between the "south" & Midwest or the "south" and the mid-Atlantic coast. Just like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona are southern geographically ... they are obviously not of what is typically referred to as "southern" when discussing the "feel" of each state (which by the way, I love southwestern culture just as much as I do southeastern or the "deep south"). And about Kentucky geographically, to me, it's not really located in the south in the first place. It's like a weird centerpoint for where the Midwest, the South, the Northeast (sord of), and the Atlantic Coast region all collide . Unique location to say the least. As for "feel", like mentioned earlier, to me it is a mix of southern and midwestern, but I would not categorize it as strictly one or the other ... like I would all of the other states that I listed strictly as "southern". Not that that's a bad thing. There are great things about every state and every state's individual culture.
Well, it's all relative in the first place from person to person, but "southern" (at least in my opinion) is somewhat parallel with "deep south". However, I'm not really referring to the "deep south" geographically, but more in the atmospheric "feel" that a state carries. In my opinion, the states I listed (MS, AL, LA, GA, TN, SC, and FL - except for south FL) carry that general "feel". Arkansas, North Carloina, and Kentucky (from both experience and word of mouth) carry that feel to a point, but not near as much as the states I listed. Therefore, I would categorize them as a hybrid between the "south" & Midwest or the "south" and the mid-Atlantic coast. Just like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona are southern geographically ... they are obviously not of what is typically referred to as "southern" when discussing the "feel" of each state (which by the way, I love southwestern culture just as much as I do southeastern or the "deep south"). And about Kentucky geographically, to me, it's not really located in the south in the first place. It's like a weird centerpoint for where the Midwest, the South, the Northeast (sord of), and the Atlantic Coast region all collide . Unique location to say the least. As for "feel", like mentioned earlier, to me it is a mix of southern and midwestern, but I would not categorize it as strictly one or the other ... like I would all of the other states that I listed strictly as "southern". Not that that's a bad thing. There are great things about every state and every state's individual culture.
I agree with this. There's too much of a midwestern presence in Kentucky to classify it as truly Southern, at least not compared to Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, etc.
Well, it's all relative in the first place from person to person, but "southern" (at least in my opinion) is somewhat parallel with "deep south". However, I'm not really referring to the "deep south" geographically, but more in the atmospheric "feel" that a state carries. In my opinion, the states I listed (MS, AL, LA, GA, TN, SC, and FL - except for south FL) carry that general "feel". Arkansas, North Carloina, and Kentucky (from both experience and word of mouth) carry that feel to a point, but not near as much as the states I listed. Therefore, I would categorize them as a hybrid between the "south" & Midwest or the "south" and the mid-Atlantic coast. Just like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona are southern geographically ... they are obviously not of what is typically referred to as "southern" when discussing the "feel" of each state (which by the way, I love southwestern culture just as much as I do southeastern or the "deep south"). And about Kentucky geographically, to me, it's not really located in the south in the first place. It's like a weird centerpoint for where the Midwest, the South, the Northeast (sord of), and the Atlantic Coast region all collide . Unique location to say the least. As for "feel", like mentioned earlier, to me it is a mix of southern and midwestern, but I would not categorize it as strictly one or the other ... like I would all of the other states that I listed strictly as "southern". Not that that's a bad thing. There are great things about every state and every state's individual culture.
Sorry, but I will argue til doomsday about Texas. LOL It is NOT Southwestern as in the same historical/cultural region as New Mexico and Arizona. And residents of those states feel the same about Texas.
Texas was overwhelmingly settled by anglos and blacks from the southeast, both before and after the War Between the States. Even leaving aside the Confederate experience (considerable in itself, as Texas was a charter CSA member), it was this phenomenon which mostly shaped the cultural of the state. Migration patterns (legal and illegal) have altered some of this over the years, but Texas is and remains essentially a Southern state.
NOT -- I hasten to add -- a TYPICAL Southern state, just one -- all in all -- much more tied to the South than to the West or "Southwest" if by the latter one means, again, in the same region as NM and AZ. And even many of the "western" components of Texas have strong Southern roots. For instance, the original Texas cowboy was most likely to have been an ex-Confederate soldier whose tradition traced to the "drover" of the Old South. The Southern Baptist church is dominant in even West Texas, and the accent is Southern American English.
Too, for all it is enshrined in legend and pride and Hollywood, up until fairly modern times, Texas was mostly a state dominated by the tenant farming cotton culture, not the huge ranching operations. And perhaps most importantly, in sociological surveys, a definite majority of Texans identify with the South as to where they consider themselves to live and what they consider themselves to be (i.e. Southerners) than they are the West. Those from New Mexico and Arizona are far more likely to go the opposite direction.
In a nutshell, Texas is southwest as in "western South". A place where Southern history, religion, culture, folkways, traditions, etc are flavored with characteristics of the post-bellum west (that is, a lot of "cowboy dress", free-spirited individuality, etc). On the other hand, New Mexico and Arizona are the true majority hispanic and American Indian influenced Southwest of the West (southern West). These are very different critters.
Now, I do agree with what you say about the "feel" of a state being a measure of "Southerness" Especially if one defines the South in that "moonlight and magnolias" paradigm of the "Old South"...which many are prone to do exclusively. Not saying there is anything wrong with this measure, but just that it is only one of many. As the old saying goes, there are "many Souths." I might add though, that true East Texas fits that Old South image very comfortably (have you ever been there?) and with good reason. It is where the Deep South begins. I have had folks from Alabama and Mississippi tell me that, if not for the license plates, they would have a hard time knowing they weren't back home. And for many, this was a surprise, so entrenched is that Hollywood western image of the state that seems to impart the ludicrous notion that once one crosses the Sabine River, the landscape suddenly and instantaneously changes to desert and cactus! LOL
In fact, just to mention one of many, the movie The Long Hot Summer, whose plot took place in Mississippi, was filmed in East Texas.
Sorry, but I will argue til doomsday about Texas. LOL It is NOT Southwestern as in the same historical/cultural region as New Mexico and Arizona. And residents of those states feel the same about Texas.
Ok, the eastern half of Texas is not "southwestern", but alot of the west half is IMO. However, the eastern half is still not "southern" as in teh way that the "deep south" is. It would fall into the same category as Arkansas, NC, KY, and such when it comes to that - kindof southern, but not fully southern (in my opinion).
And, I actually have been all over Texas - small towns and every large city (with the exception of Austin).
Ok, the eastern half of Texas is not "southwestern", but alot of the west half is IMO. However, the eastern half is still not "southern" as in teh way that the "deep south" is. It would fall into the same category as Arkansas, NC, KY, and such when it comes to that - kindof southern, but not fully southern (in my opinion).
And, I actually have been all over Texas - small towns and every large city (with the exception of Austin).
Your post was way too long too
Thanks for the clarification!
Still though, with the trans-pecos exception, or that of parts of S. Texas, even West Texas is not SW like AZ and NM are (except in a superfically topographical sense). And for the reasons cited earlier...a Southern settlement and different historical and cultural components stemming from the same. Speech, religion, CSA legacies, etc. Shoot, even something so trivial, of sorts, as the tradition of black-eyed peas being widespread on New Years Day, is extensive all over even western Texas, a direct product of dominating Southern roots. Try and find them in the true desert SW! LOL
Also, the eastern half of Texas is not really the same as true East Texas (i.e. generally the piney woods). As I say, this Old South similarity is not just my opinion, but those from Deep South states who have been there, and again, found it surprisingly so the first time there. But to your credit, you make it clear that your opinions are just that too, your own. As are mine, of course.
So far as the length of my posts go, well, you don't have to read it all, do you? Your write yours, I'll write mine. Reckon?
Last edited by TexasReb; 08-07-2008 at 04:16 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
).
I am just playing anyway 
