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Old 07-30-2008, 03:30 PM
 
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I'd be interested in examples of towns with active, prosperous downtowns, and people's thoughts on how these towns manage to preserve this character in their downtowns.

I'm talking towns, not large cities. Let's use 40k as the approximate maximum population, though this is just a guideline since you may know of larger places that still feel small and friendly.

Also, the kind of downtown I'm talking about has not become dominated by touristy or yuppie attractions like antique shops and art galleries. It's fine if those businesses are present, as long as they don't define the downtown. I'm asking about the kind of downtown with plenty of stores for practical needs, where as you stroll around you might drop off a coat at the cleaners, do some banking, grab a bite to eat, get a haircut, buy personal supplies at the drugstore, do some grocery shopping, etc. If it's a somewhat larger town, downtown might have a hardware store, clothing or shoe stores, book stores, etc. Still larger, maybe there will be specialty shops, like a music store, or somewhat larger businesses, such as a furniture, electronics, or appliance store.

Where are the towns with these viable downtowns? Also, what do you think is the reason these towns still maintain good downtowns, when so many towns today have faded downtowns, with most commercial activity found in strip malls at the edge of town? What are these towns with great downtowns doing right?
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:38 PM
 
Location: The Rock!
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I don't know of any that small in this day and age.

EDIT: I know of a few that are a bit larger that have resurging downtowns but still most of the actual commercial activity is at the edges in larger "modern" developments.
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:48 PM
 
Location: moving again
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The first town to come to mind was Frederick, MD (however the population is 60,000)

I think they do it because they've preserved their downtown and have lots of things that attract people like TONS of privately owned shops and restaurants. Also they have a large park, the Caroll creek river walk and very nice housing stock downtown. But i also think due to its location of being 45 mins from both DC and Bmore that it attracts people who don't like the high cost of living in these cities.

I think many towns with fading downtowns are because they simply can't attract buissnesses or people to come downtown for the day. Maybe they need better city leadership. maybe now that much of the US cities's people live in suburbs they simply don't feel like traveling downtown and want everything to be closer, so therefore strip malls pop up and lots of chain stores come up instead of unique private shops.
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Yes
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Many downtowns across the country (large and small) drive me crazy because they completely lack practical places for the everyday person ... and then each city wanders why everyone lives outside the downtown area. How does a city expect to attract/maintain residents in a downtown area when there is no decent-sized grocery store, no drug store, and no convinience store? In most downtowns I see (and especially here in STL), there are plenty bars, plenty art galleries, a few places to eat, and a sports team or two. But what good is that when you have practical needs? I'd be personally ok if most downtowns sold a bit of their soul and brought in a Target or Walmart (or something practical even if it's a Whole Foods/Walgreens combo!) that residents could walk to. In my opinion, that would attract many more residents to the city, because then they at least know they could walk to go get a frozen pizza and a pair of socks ... instead of having to drive out to the suburbs or midtown to do so. But no, it seems that would cost a few "culture" points .

Sorry, that was more of a personal rant than a direct response to your question.
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:49 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
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The suburb I grew up in, Walnut Creek, CA, has one of the best downtowns in the SF Bay Area. The city has about 65,000 so it's a little larger but not a big city. It's always had a fairly nice downtown but over the last 10 years has become much better with great development, all of which are pedestrian friendly and have parking garages above or below ground rather than at ground level. The area is a transportation hub being at the intersection of two major freeways and having a heavy rail line connecting it to the rest of the Bay Area. So lots of mid-rise office towers were constructed brining workers to the downtown and increasing accessibility. The city encouraged good development downtown, probably offered some incentives, and made sure it had enough parking and was nicely landscaped. Back in the 1950's a shopping center, Broadway Plaza, was built right in downtown so that helped keep retail in downtown rather than in strip malls on the edge of town. Being in an affluent area made it easy to attract high end retailers as well. The area has nice restaurants and a good nightlife, so that helped to attract even more restaurants. And the development helped to attract residents of even more affluent communities nearby to come shop, dine, and play. There are also nice cultural institutions, like a regional performing arts center, that attracts people for shows and plays. Now all the surrounding towns are trying to emulate Walnut Creek and develop their downtowns. Also there were a lot of apartments built in and around downtown, so many people live in it or close to it, helping to create a lot of pedestrian activity. Basically my city always had a nice downtown and city leaders only improved on it instead of encouraging development away from it.
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Houston
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well the key is to stop the sprawl. the more people near the city core the better the downtown will be
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow73 View Post
I don't know of any that small in this day and age.

EDIT: I know of a few that are a bit larger that have resurging downtowns but still most of the actual commercial activity is at the edges in larger "modern" developments.
It often seems that commercial activity on the edge of town means the death of downtown. Either that, or eventually a gentrified downtown with coffee shops and art galleries, but little in the way of stores to serve everyday needs, which to me is what makes a downtown seem "real."

Every now and then, I have encountered a town here and there with a good downtown and a mall at the edge of town. The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. It does usually seem that you get one or the other, though, and not both together.
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westhou View Post
well the key is to stop the sprawl. the more people near the city core the better the downtown will be
I agree that a certain level of density means that a good portion of a town's residents will live within walking distance of downtown. I wonder how you stop the sprawl. Maybe anti-sprawl zoning? Or, maybe people will finally wake up to what it costs them--monetarily, but in other ways as well--to drive everywhere for their daily activities.
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:25 PM
 
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Thanks to all who have contributed their thoughts. Billiam's and Sav's posts both talk about careful planning. It may take a community-wide feeling that a real town with a real downtown is worth preserving, and a cooperative effort from business interests and city officials, and of course the local citizenry, to make downtowns places worth visiting, and visiting often.

OScott, you make a good point about having downtown businesses that serve basic needs. You're going to have that many more people going downtown if these sorts of stores are located there. This is good for developing a sense of community, which is enhanced by having people see others from around town as they go about their errands through the day.

By the way, no problem with the personal rant. I do think that having some basic kinds of stores downtown is a good common denominator. People of all demographics and socioeconmic levels need to buy groceries, for example. Getting all kinds of people to cross paths frequently as they gather downtown is another way that a good downtown helps build a real sense of community.

I wouldn't mind a downtown WalMart or "Tarjzahy" either. These sorts of stores may be bland, and they may be disparaged by many as symbols of sterile suburbia, but they can be convenient. In a way, they're really like large versions of old-fashioned general stores. And it's better to have stores that people find useful downtown than out on a highway at the edge of town, again because of the importance of downtowns in building a sense of community. The more businesses that people find useful which are located downtown, the more that people will frequent downtown. One issue I could see with locating big-box stores downtown would be the size of these stores. Traditional downtown buildings are divided into spaces more suited to small shops. Perhaps opening some larger spaces downtown would be another area where community-wide cooperation would be a benefit.

Thanks again for your thoughts, everyone.
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Des Moines, IA
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Pella, Iowa:

Pella Tulip Time - Tulip Time Photo Gallery - Pella Historical Society

The town prides itself on it's Dutch heritage and all of the architecture reflects this. People are very into buying locally and it's probably the only place in the world where Wal-Mart failed due to local competition. There are a few good sized companies based out of this town (Pella Windows and Vermeer "Diggin' Dutchman" machinery) so it's pretty much an upper-middle class place.
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