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I have driven through Missouri several times and have gotten interested in whether Missouri is mostly southeren or mid western. My over all impression is that there might not be a neat dividing line. Here are my impressions from my drive throughs:
Saint Louis: Definetly big city midwestern. None of the employees at the restaraunt by the Soulard market had southeren style accents. Even the local produce sellers at the market (presumably from outside the city) did not seem to be southeren.
Herman area: Almost entirely Mostly midwestern. A local store owner told me that all natives to the area that he knew had "6:00 clock news accents". Likewise, another person told me that she was from Jefferson City and that while there are southereners in the State, she did not self identify as southeren. Most churches seemed to be Lutheran or Catholic.
Cuba area: Mixed, but southeren food influences, southeren style accents, and mannerisms getting more noticable. Baptist churches more prevalant, but the area also had Knights of Columbus religous advertising. One house had a rebel flag and a statue of the Virgin Mary. I guess catholic in Missouri does not alway mean mid western orientation.
Waynesville, Lebanon, Rolla: Had fried catfish and fried Okra for lunch - definetly pretty southeren. Noticed that the numbers of Catholic and Lutheran churches had noticably deceased and were replaced by Baptist and independent evangelical churches. This trend seemed to continue to Oklahoma.
Missouri is an overall Midwestern state. I would characterize it as being more of a Northern state than a Southern one from a modern standpoint. 150 years ago I would've said the opposite. St. Louis and Kansas City, Columbia and Jefferson City and areas north are all Midwestern. And Baptist churches, while a Southern trait, are not indicative exclusively that you are in the South. Much of Missouri is predominantly Southern Baptist, but culturally, linguistically, and in terms of every other demographic, it is not the South. Cuba, Waynesville, Lebanon, and Rolla are Southern-influenced, but not the South.
Missouri is an overall Midwestern state. I would characterize it as being more of a Northern state than a Southern one from a modern standpoint. 150 years ago I would've said the opposite. St. Louis and Kansas City, Columbia and Jefferson City and areas north are all Midwestern. And Baptist churches, while a Southern trait, are not indicative exclusively that you are in the South. Much of Missouri is predominantly Southern Baptist, but culturally, linguistically, and in terms of every other demographic, it is not the South. Cuba, Waynesville, Lebanon, and Rolla are Southern-influenced, but not the South.
Missouri just isn't a northern tier state in the least, geographically. Culturally it is split. Climatically it is on the fence or southern.
Missouri just isn't a northern tier state in the least, geographically. Culturally it is split. Climatically it is on the fence or southern.
In the least? Christ, you're stubborn. You're telling me that Missouri is not in the least a Midwestern state by telling me that. It is one of the 12 Midwest states, so get over it. Geographically Missouri is centrally located just like Kansas. Culturally it is 70%-30% split, 70% Midwest, 30% South. So my argument still stands. You are starting arguments for no reason. Not a 50-50 like you claim. And heck, you think Kansas City is half-Southern...what a joke!!! I have friends that have lived there for years who would laugh at you.
Somehow I knew you'd show up to stir the pot. A northern tier state? Nobody said that. Heck, Iowa isn't a Northern tier state. Missouri is not culturally split, and you yourself have even said that Missouri is 70% Midwestern, 30% Southern. So that makes Missouri more Northern than Southern by today's standards. Now, 150 years ago, I'd say it was more Southern. Missouri is far from an even 50-50 split. Climatically Missouri is not Southern...it's split. Missouri being in the lower Midwest, like you've said, makes it more of a Northern state than a Southern one by your own definition.
What are you saying is the equivalent of saying Kentucky is an Upper South state, but it isn't a Southern tier state in the least, and therefore is split and not a Southern state. I can tell you that Kentucky shares more in common with Alabama than Indiana. You're full of contradictions.
Here's my take on it.
Southern: VA, NC, SC, TN, KY, GA, FL, AL, MS, LA, AR, TX.
Northern: Everything North of Virginia
Southern-ish: OK, WV, MO (bottom bit of it.)
Here's my take on it.
Southern: VA, NC, SC, TN, KY, GA, FL, AL, MS, LA, AR, TX.
Northern: Everything North of Virginia
Southern-ish: OK, WV, MO (bottom bit of it.)
Missouri is not in the same category as Oklahoma and West Virginia.
Oklahoma and West Virginia are overall Southern states, whereas Missouri just has Southern influences. Missouri is not a Southern state. It is a Midwestern state with Southern influences. Oklahoma is actually Southern, no doubt about it. West Virginia in the upper third of the state is more Northern eastern, whereas the rest of the state leans decisively Southern.
I'm not saying we can't have our regional pride. I've posted earlier in this thread about what states I consider Northern and Southern and I do have an opinion on this topic, but I've always identified myself as an American first. In reading some of these CD threads and hearing similar conversation in face to face interactions with people, I sometimes wonder whether the America First sentiment is not as strong as it was.
Anyway, back on topic. Since Missouri was the most recent state debated on this thread, I consider Missouri to be a Northern state with Southern cultural features in the lower part of the state.
Missouri just isn't a northern tier state in the least, geographically. Culturally it is split. Climatically it is on the fence or southern.
50-50 split. No. More like 70-30 split. Get consistent or stop posting. Climactically it is not Southern. Kansas is also on the fence, and so is much of Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. So I guess what you're saying is that there is no Midwest, that the Lower Midwest is a subregion of the South, and the Upper South is a subregion of the Midwest. If the Lower Midwest can't be like the Upper Midwest, it's the same thing as saying the Upper South can't be like the Deep South.
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