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I'm not saying we don't have an accent, what I am saying is that talking to people all over West Michigan nobody I speak with pronounces hot like hat, dot like dat, top like tap, like the OP says. Nobody I hear speaking in stores, or anywhere else is pronouncing words like that either. I also travel from K-Zoo to TC, usually on a weekly basis and don't hear that. Not because I am "used" to it, but because it isn't there for the vast majority of people. I am not going to say it isn't there for 100% of the people, because probably somebody out there says things like that, but if they are a very tiny minority.
I'm out of this conversation. Minds are made up and the truth be damned it looks like. I LIVE here, I hear how people here speak every single day, believe what you want. I know better.
I'm originally from Michigan, and moved to Pennsylvania a couple of years ago. I definitely notice a difference listening to the way people speak back in Michigan than compared with the "mainstream American" voices you hear in commercials. That being said, it isn't really that much of a difference - at least for most people, so you basically having to be paying specific attention to notice it. People don't really say "hot" like "hat" - it's more like the word "hot" sounds slightly more like "hat" than it does for the rest of the U.S.
I have had an occasional interesting experience with the NCS though. I tried ordering hot salsa, and apparently the person behind the counter couldn't understand what I was saying until I purposely said "hawt." Maybe it does sound like "hat."
The "NCVS" non-accent does exist here in Michigan. Indiana doesn't have it, infact, Three Rivers is about as far south as it goes. I notice every time I go to Constantine (5 miles south of TR) people there sound like they're from Indiana or Ohio, but TR is pure Michigan. No, it's not as pronounced as some out-of-towners think it is (we DON'T say hat for hot or tap for top), but it does exist. Chicago and Western NY sound similar. I was surprised to meet people from Buffalo, NY and find out that they dont have an accent! Personally, I don't think we have an accent in Michigan. We speak correctly. In fact, people from south of Michigan and the west coast sound like they have the "vowel shift." "Pop" sounds like "paup," "flap" sounds like "flop," and "pen" sounds like "pin." They have the accent, not us .
As for the original subject of this post (blacks not having the Michigan dialect), it's not entirely true. While some "black" people DO have a different accent (I've heard people from Kalamazoo who sounded like they were born and rainsed in Mississippi), not all non-whites speak that way. I'm black, and I sound like anyone else in Michigan.
This is why I don't here it in Michigan. I never venture far from Detroit. There is no question that the people in Michigan sound a lot different than people in Indiana. They pronounce creek as "crik" and other nuggets; though the examples the OP gave I have never heard; not that anyone cares what I think.
The "NCVS" non-accent does exist here in Michigan. Indiana doesn't have it, infact, Three Rivers is about as far south as it goes. I notice every time I go to Constantine (5 miles south of TR) people there sound like they're from Indiana or Ohio, but TR is pure Michigan.
Like I said, no further east and south than South Bend. Constantine is east of South Bend. Believe me, the NCS shift doesn't magically stop at the Chicago/Hammond border. It carries on through the Northwest Indiana corridor along the lake.
The Chicago accent is part of the "NCS" family of accents.
Thanks for clarifying that, looking back I didn't quite explain myself clearly. My point was exactly what you wrote, that while NCS is present in the Chicago accent, it isn't confined to Chicago, nor are the strongest aspects of it found in Chicago.
Having family who speaks in various accents (I've got family in New England, and had relatives when I was younger from New York City, and now also have some family by marriage from rural Indiana, all sporting the various accents associated with those regions), it is something that occasionally came up in conversation, especially when my cousins and I would make fun of how each other talked and the words we would use (e.g. pop, soda, wicked, etc)
: Bydand;I'm not saying we don't have an accent, what I am saying is that talking to people all over West Michigan nobody I speak with pronounces hot like hat, dot like dat, top like tap
That's because you to you hat sounds like "het", dat like "det" and tap like
"tep" This is why it's called a vowel shift.
Most of the people I know from Michigan seem to think they don't have an accent when in fact it is easily recognizable to people who are not from the Great Lakes region.
This is why I don't here it in Michigan. I never venture far from Detroit. There is no question that the people in Michigan sound a lot different than people in Indiana. They pronounce creek as "crik" and other nuggets; though the examples the OP gave I have never heard; not that anyone cares what I think.
DC 38: Who says it "crick", Detroiters or Indianans? I'm curious because my dad always pronounced it that way, never knew why.
That's because you to you hat sounds like "het", dat like "det" and tap like
"tep" This is why it's called a vowel shift.
Most of the people I know from Michigan seem to think they don't have an accent when in fact it is easily recognizable to people who are not from the Great Lakes region.
In Rochester, they say "heeyut" (all one syllable) for hat, "teeyup" for tap, etc.
Also, anyone know what's up with some native Chicagoans pronouncing it "Chicawgo", with other native Chicagoans pronounce it "Chicahhgo". Is that a North Side/South Side thing or something?
The only guy I've ever known to say "crick" was from Pittsburgh.
Yeah, it's a Western, Pa thing too. I've also heard them say "kellar" instead of color and "tagger" instead of tiger.
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This is why it's called a vowel shift.
