Water (Atlanta: bankruptcy, lawsuits, versus)

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

There must be a lot of water stored in those big oak trees. Couldn't we just poke a hole in those?

[AcidSnake]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Some other news articles about it:

Judge: Atlanta's Withdrawals From Lake Lanier Are Illegal - News Story - WSB Atlanta
Judge Rules Atlanta Must Stop Using Lanier Water - 11Alive.com | WXIA | Atlanta, GA (http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=132703&catid=274 - broken link)
Atlanta Lake Lanier Withdrawals Ruled Illegal - Atlanta News Story - WGCL Atlanta

They all basically say the same thing, though.

My guess: At the last minute some sort of Congressional thing will be passed that will allow Atlanta to draw SOME water from the lake, but it could very well be a reduced amount that's not as much as is allowed now. I think it's around 13% of the lake now... wouldn't shock me if they drop it to 5% of the lake.

Hey, let's be blunt here... Roy Barnes was in the planning and process stages of having more than one additional water reservoir built North of Atlanta. Then the "flag flap" happened, and the flag people voted him out for Perdue due to anger that their flag # XX out of how many(?) since the State became a State got changed. Perdue got in office, and forgot his promise to change their flag back for them - and they voted him in a second time! He ignored the water reservoir issues completely, among many other things. Had Barnes remained in office, the first of the new reservoirs would now be completed and be filling up with water, and this Lanier thing would be much less of a potential issue than it is now.

Even if by some stroke of luck voters use their brains and vote Barnes in again (he's running), it would take at least 4-6 years before any kind of reservoirs could be up and running... most likely longer because land acquisitions would have to begin all over again. So if the water we're allowed to use gets cut short in THREE years, and it takes 6,7, or 8 for new reservoirs to go online? Hmmmmmm.... bottled water to flush your toilets, anyone?

Indeed.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Hey, let's be blunt here... Roy Barnes was in the planning and process stages of having more than one additional water reservoir built North of Atlanta. Then the "flag flap" happened, and the flag people voted him out for Perdue due to anger that their flag # XX out of how many(?) since the State became a State got changed. Perdue got in office, and forgot his promise to change their flag back for them - and they voted him in a second time! He ignored the water reservoir issues completely, among many other things. Had Barnes remained in office, the first of the new reservoirs would now be completed and be filling up with water, and this Lanier thing would be much less of a potential issue than it is now.

Even if by some stroke of luck voters use their brains and vote Barnes in again (he's running), it would take at least 4-6 years before any kind of reservoirs could be up and running... most likely longer because land acquisitions would have to begin all over again. So if the water we're allowed to use gets cut short in THREE years, and it takes 6,7, or 8 for new reservoirs to go online? Hmmmmmm.... bottled water to flush your toilets, anyone?

So Greg.... I know you're a Barnes supporter, and I can understand your POV, but you're blaming Perdue and ignoring Barnes' four years, Zell's eight years, Joe Frank's eight years, Busbee's two terms, and on and on since the 1950s. Where were these Governors and the accompanying legislators? To blame Perdue as if the sum total of the failure happened in the last 8 years is a bit of a stretch, no? The problem lies in the apparent ambiguous language that enabled the building of Buford Dam, and the lack of action by the Federal Gov't, by either the ACOE or the Congress, to address the issue 30 to 50 years ago.

Could Perdue have done more...absolutely. Was Barnes in office for 4 years...absolutely. Did Barnes solve the problem in his 4 years....nope. Barnes failed to get the job done, and you can't blame the flag or make excuses any more than you can make excuses for the other Governors who have failed to address the problem.

[southgeorgia]

Originally Posted by globalnomad

I wonder what kind of impact this draconian ruling will have on the future of Atlanta?

I dont' see it as such.

Its time for atlanta to solve their problem and lake lanier is not the answer.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by southgeorgia

Its time for atlanta to solve their problem and lake lanier is not the answer.

So a multi-billion gallon reservoir...one of the largest in the country...built in north Georgia and filled by rain that falls over north Georgia, shouldn't be able to be used as a water source for north Georgia? It's more suited to provide water for power generation in Alabama and to keep mussels alive in Florida?

There is plenty of water in Lanier if the ACOE would manage it responsibly, in combination with some new reservoirs being built to augment it. This decision is Solomon cutting the baby in half and makes no common sense.

Punting this thing back to a dysfunctional Congress just baffles me, as does the utter childishness of the state politicians. Florida and Alabama politicians are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids, stomping their feet because mommy didn't give them what they wanted, and Georgia hasn't made a serious attempt at augmenting and sharing the water in a responsible way.

This whole thing is one more example of why our government at all levels is incompetent and doesn't put the lives and well being of its citizens ahead of petty politics and parochial interests.

[johnatl]

^Great points, Neil. I completely agree.

Look, even during the peak of the drought the ACOE was mandated to release 3.3 billion gallons per day just for Florida's supposed needs. During this entire time of the prolonged drought, Alabama was never under any type of water restrictions.

Atlanta's average daily withdrawal - 600 to 650 million gallons per day.

Hardly seems fair, does it?

[blondandfun]

There is a lot more water in AL than GA. I don't understand how Atlanta expects them to change their release rates just for their expansion. They are supposed to work AROUND these rules, not them work around us. we're not the center of the universe you know. It's called planning.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

There is a lot more water in AL than GA. I don't understand how Atlanta expects them to change their release rates just for their expansion. They are supposed to work AROUND these rules, not them work around us. we're not the center of the universe you know. It's called planning.

So if there is "a lot more water in AL than GA"....who should do the planning?

The issue isn't about changing the release rates to accomodate anyone's expansion, but rather how a judge (and the politicians in AL & FL) reaches the conclusion that a massive reservoir in north Georgia, filled by rain that falls over north Georgia, should be off limits to the millions of people who have relied upon it for decades.

One thing that the recent drought demonstrated is that there is a HUGE amount of water in Lanier. Even at the record low around 1050', there was still a massive amount of water in the lake. With a reasonable policy of releases and conservation when droughts arise, there is no reason the lake cannot sustain Atlanta and the other purposes. At the same time, Georgia, Alabama, and Florida should look at other sources to augment Lanier.

It is important to reiterate what was said by johnatl....even during the height of the drought, Alabama was under NO water restrictions. The least that can be expected is that Alabama does its part to conserve and to tap other sources that by your own comments are available to them, such as the Tennessee River. The fact that Alabama hasn't grown in 50 years shouldn't be used as an excuse to hold back other areas where people actually want to live and work.

[AcidSnake]

Originally Posted by neil0311

So a multi-billion gallon reservoir...one of the largest in the country...built in north Georgia and filled by rain that falls over north Georgia, shouldn't be able to be used as a water source for north Georgia? It's more suited to provide water for power generation in Alabama and to keep mussels alive in Florida?

There is plenty of water in Lanier if the ACOE would manage it responsibly, in combination with some new reservoirs being built to augment it. This decision is Solomon cutting the baby in half and makes no common sense.

Punting this thing back to a dysfunctional Congress just baffles me, as does the utter childishness of the state politicians. Florida and Alabama politicians are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids, stomping their feet because mommy didn't give them what they wanted, and Georgia hasn't made a serious attempt at augmenting and sharing the water in a responsible way.

This whole thing is one more example of why our government at all levels is incompetent and doesn't put the lives and well being of its citizens ahead of petty politics and parochial interests.

THAT's the Neil I like to hear!

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by neil0311

So Greg.... I know you're a Barnes supporter, and I can understand your POV, but you're blaming Perdue and ignoring Barnes' four years, Zell's eight years, Joe Frank's eight years, Busbee's two terms, and on and on since the 1950s. Where were these Governors and the accompanying legislators? To blame Perdue as if the sum total of the failure happened in the last 8 years is a bit of a stretch, no? The problem lies in the apparent ambiguous language that enabled the building of Buford Dam, and the lack of action by the Federal Gov't, by either the ACOE or the Congress, to address the issue 30 to 50 years ago.

Could Perdue have done more...absolutely. Was Barnes in office for 4 years...absolutely. Did Barnes solve the problem in his 4 years....nope. Barnes failed to get the job done, and you can't blame the flag or make excuses any more than you can make excuses for the other Governors who have failed to address the problem.

I'm not necessarily a "Barnes supporter". My point is that he WAS doing some good things, but a certain segment of voters completely ignored everything he did do because of the flag issue and only the flag issue. The misplacement of priorities is just what astounds me - not that I thought Barnes had a halo over his head (he IS a lawyer by profession, after all). I'm just saying he was more "forward thinking" than Perdue has even come close to showing he's capable (or not) of.

Don't ask me when/where it was, but Barnes actually did discuss what was then not that big of a water issue for metro Atlanta during a speech. He had at that time already ordered some studies to find the best places to put some new reservoirs, and that was going to be his 2nd term agenda. But again, per above, he never made it to that term. So no, he didn't get it done in his first 4 years, but it was apparently in the works and would have been done in his second term.

Here's Perdue picking up a shovel to dig us a new reservoir...

Oh no, wait, that's it. He didn't do that. He prayed for rain instead. Then moved on to go to a Georgia Game later that day.

This is becoming too political in nature, so I'm not going to discuss the State Capital any more. It's finally to the point where the Courts are stepping in and saying "fix it, or shrivel up and dry out". Now, on a State level, the Courts as well as the Leaders still have a, "Atlanta can go ahead and die - we don't care", type of attitude. But, perhaps on a Federal level, there won't be that "Georgia vs the big city" type of attitude, and maybe things will be done, the laws regarding water withdrawal will be rewritten, and everyone will be happy - well, probably not, but at least things will be more workable.

But I still think that while Atlanta will eventually be able to continue to take water out of the Lake, it won't be as much as they can now. So new water reservoirs ARE still needed and should be on the next Governor's agenda no matter who gets in office. Droughts come and go and then come again. On some level whether man-made or natural, there ARE changes in the climate taking place as well. Atlanta metro continues to grow and even at it's current slower pace of something like 50,000 new metro residents a year, that's still a lot of people annually.

This is what Sweekwater Creek lake looked like last year when I took this shot (note, NO lake). They were actually toying with the idea of water restrictions at that time, as in REAL restrictions (such as, each home only allowed to use X-amount of gallons per day). So, what do you think the lakes will look like after 2+ million MORE people have moved into the area when the next dry spell hits? Ready to wash your clothes with bottled water?

In other words - "never forget".