Educate me about Grand Rapids (Kalamazoo, Kentwood: condos, appliances, homes)

[PerryMason614]

I was looking at the Kentwood/Gaines Twp. area, along the Henry Freeway for a possible relocation. It looks like there is a lot of newer construction near the Meijer/Target store.

I am curious about that area and Grand Rapids in general. I specifically want to understand where the nicer "upscale" neighborhoods are, new and old. That is, if there is such a thing in a city like Grand Rapids.

What would you suggest that an out-of-towner "see" if he/she went there for a day trip?

[magellan]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

I was looking at the Kentwood/Gaines Twp. area, along the Henry Freeway for a possible relocation. It looks like there is a lot of newer construction near the Meijer/Target store.

I am curious about that area and Grand Rapids in general. I specifically want to understand where the nicer "upscale" neighborhoods are, new and old. That is, if there is such a thing in a city like Grand Rapids.

What would you suggest that an out-of-towner "see" if he/she went there for a day trip?

You're asking if there are upscale areas in a city like Grand Rapids?

A metro area of over 1 Million people, whether it has upscale areas?

[PerryMason614]

Originally Posted by magellan

You're asking if there are upscale areas in a city like Grand Rapids?

A metro area of over 1 Million people, whether it has upscale areas?

I didn't realize it was one million people. I thought it was a lot smaller. So where are the nicer areas?

[infrastructurist]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

I didn't realize it was one million people. I thought it was a lot smaller.

Your impression might still feel accurate, Grand Rapids can feel pretty small. The MSA has 1 million people, but Grand Rapids City only has about 1/5th of them.

80% of that million is spread *way* out -- dozens of suburbs and small towns across four different counties. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/cen.../profile28.jpg

For instance, most people don't consider Muskegon to be part of Grand Rapids, but they get included in that population count. There's some nuances around the commuting rates the MSA was defined by, which causes that number to be larger than it might actually feel. CGI - Metropolitan, Micropolitan, and Combined Statistical Areas for Michigan

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

I was looking at the Kentwood/Gaines Twp. area, along the Henry Freeway for a possible relocation. It looks like there is a lot of newer construction near the Meijer/Target store.

I am curious about that area and Grand Rapids in general. I specifically want to understand where the nicer "upscale" neighborhoods are, new and old. That is, if there is such a thing in a city like Grand Rapids.

There's plenty of upscale neighborhoods / suburbs. Heritage Hill, East Grand Rapids, Forest Hills / Ada, Rockford, are just a few of the most popular ones.

South Kentwood / Gaines Township is definitely a fine area, with lots of newer construction. But I'm not sure it's widely considered "upscale". Probably more "upper middle class".

[magellan]

Originally Posted by infrastructurist

Your impression might still feel accurate, Grand Rapids can feel pretty small. The MSA has 1 million people, but Grand Rapids City only has about 1/5th of them.

80% of that million is spread *way* out -- dozens of suburbs and small towns across four different counties. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/cen.../profile28.jpg

For instance, most people don't consider Muskegon to be part of Grand Rapids, but they get included in that population count. There's some nuances around the commuting rates the MSA was defined by, which causes that number to be larger than it might actually feel. CGI - Metropolitan, Micropolitan, and Combined Statistical Areas for Michigan



There's plenty of upscale neighborhoods / suburbs. Heritage Hill, East Grand Rapids, Forest Hills / Ada, Rockford, are just a few of the most popular ones.

South Kentwood / Gaines Township is definitely a fine area, with lots of newer construction. But I'm not sure it's widely considered "upscale". Probably more "upper middle class".

Muskegon is not included in the Grand Rapids MSA, it's Barry, Montcalm, Kent and Ottawa counties.



But that's the case for the majority of the US, where the core city is 1/5 or 1/4 of the metro population. The US is still a very suburban country and getting even more suburban.

But agreed, the Gaines Township area near the South Beltline isn't considered upscale. In addition to the ones you noted, there are upscale neighborhoods in Byron Township and far out in Hudsonville.

Forest Hills School District area and East Grand Rapids however are considered the tops in prestige (education levels, household incomes, housing values, gated communities, etc.).

This map of household incomes from the census gives a pretty good picture. Darker green being higher.




For a day trip you could tour the Eastern part of the city from Forest Hills through East Grand Rapids, Eastown, East Hills, Heritage Hill to downtown. There are a lot of shops and cafes to stop at. Take in a cider mill if it's this time of year, hit the lakeshore (Grand Haven) and check out the lake. This time of year the waves are always big and fun to watch.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

I didn't realize it was one million people. I thought it was a lot smaller. So where are the nicer areas?

Consider that info as part of the "education" you asked for.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by infrastructurist

Your impression might still feel accurate, Grand Rapids can feel pretty small. The MSA has 1 million people, but Grand Rapids City only has about 1/5th of them.

80% of that million is spread *way* out -- dozens of suburbs and small towns across four different counties. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/cen.../profile28.jpg

For instance, most people don't consider Muskegon to be part of Grand Rapids, but they get included in that population count. There's some nuances around the commuting rates the MSA was defined by, which causes that number to be larger than it might actually feel. CGI - Metropolitan, Micropolitan, and Combined Statistical Areas for Michigan



There's plenty of upscale neighborhoods / suburbs. Heritage Hill, East Grand Rapids, Forest Hills / Ada, Rockford, are just a few of the most popular ones.

South Kentwood / Gaines Township is definitely a fine area, with lots of newer construction. But I'm not sure it's widely considered "upscale". Probably more "upper middle class".

That ratio is not an anomaly. Atlanta is a metro of 5 million but there are only 500,000 in the city (so Atlanta only has 1/10th of its metro). Most metro areas that have the majority of their population growth occurring post 1950....with no annexation....have a similar ratio. The thing different about the Grand Rapids area is that it is not contiguous. Its a series of independent areas that, after time and growth, kind of merged together as a metro area based upon commuting percentages.

What I find makes an area have a much bigger feel is 3 lane expressways extending out at least 10 miles from the core, in all directions, plus a downtown with a few 500 ft buildings. I have been to Des
Moines, Iowa a few times and it has a bigger feel that Grand Rapids....but the metro is much smaller. I attribute that to their more impressive highways and downtown.

[PerryMason614]

Originally Posted by magellan

This map of household incomes from the census gives a pretty good picture. Darker green being higher.

WOW, that entire lower tier looks like it's middle income, maybe slightly above, but not upper income. What fooled me was the establishments on the other side of the freeway north of the Meijer/Target. When you see a fancy McDonald's in brick and a fancy BP station, they usually only do that in upper income areas.

I thought since the better mall is west of there, then the incomes trended to the West side since that mall has more stores. It looks like the incomes are where the other mall is.

This may all sound stupid to you guys, but that's kind of how I start to judge things when I'm trying to get my bearings about a town. I start looking at where the everyday things I do are located and work out from there.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by PerryMason614

WOW, that entire lower tier looks like it's middle income, maybe slightly above, but not upper income. What fooled me was the establishments on the other side of the freeway north of the Meijer/Target. When you see a fancy McDonald's in brick and a fancy BP station, they usually only do that in upper income areas.

I thought since the better mall is west of there, then the incomes trended to the West side since that mall has more stores. It looks like the incomes are where the other mall is.

This may all sound stupid to you guys, but that's kind of how I start to judge things when I'm trying to get my bearings about a town. I start looking at where the everyday things I do are located and work out from there.

All of that growth along the South Beltline in that area is fairly new growth, since that highway was just built about 11 years ago. So the Target, Meijer, McDonalds, etc all have the new architectural styles. The exit at Byron Center Avenue has built up even more than the Kalamazoo Ave exit.

Rivertown Crossings Mall to the West is the "newer" mall, opened in 2001 I believe, but it's certainly not the better mall. Woodland Mall isn't great, but ask any woman in town who likes to shop and the selections/brands at Woodland and surrounding area are considered better. Even the two Macy's stores carry different brands. That's also why Woodland got the Apple store and Rivertown did not.

Now Tanger Outlets is open which looks highly upscale but I hear the selections are lackluster.

Don't get me wrong, you really can't go wrong in those areas along M-6. They're the fastest growing townships in the metro area. There are a couple of huge neighborhoods in Byron Center on man-made lakes that are extremely popular, and the homes are very nicely done. There's also Railside in Byron Center which is a pretty exclusive golf course community with a pool house, etc..

Gaines Township has a lot of new neighborhoods as well.

[Zenstyle]

PerryMason614, this is merely my personal quirk, but "suburban" and "upscale" seem oxymoronic. If it's new appliances and amenities galore you're after, there's plenty right in town. And if you love old, well-cared-for character, check out the Heritage Hill neighborhood.

If you're looking for old, well-cared for and affordable, look no further than Eastown.

If you're craving new white boxes with drywall off-gassing you can smell from the street, any outlying suburb will do you.