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Old 08-16-2010, 02:10 PM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,279,743 times
Reputation: 877

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"US consumers taste for large gas guzzlers—pickups, SUVs and minivans accounted for more than 50% of new car sales in the US from 2001-2007—the US underwent a massive exporting of wealth to the Middle East over the last seven years.
Collectively, the Gulf Cooperation Council’s [GCC]—Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates—economy more than doubled between 2001 and 2006. Similarly, the GCC trade surplus has exploded above $500 billion and is now closing in on $700+ billion.

This transfer of wealth also fueled one of the biggest infrastructure booms in history. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and other areas in the region have transformed from semi-desert regions to burgeoning metropolises. Altogether, the GCC plans to invest more than $1.6 trillion in infrastructure in the next five years. Some of the more striking projects:
  • King Abdullah City: a 68 square mile city built in Saudi Arabia.
  • Dubailand: a 3 billion square foot theme park twice the size of Walt Disney World in Dubai.
  • Silk City: a $136 billion, 250 square kilometer city in Kuwait."
I think we need to think about sustainability here....... or else. The switch to electric vehicles, a transition to intelligent and efficient electric power distribution. The alternative is to leave things the way they are and lose or hemhorrage money to other regions and have less here in America.
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Old 08-16-2010, 03:30 PM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,961,323 times
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Yet this problem came about by political policies that force the US to purchase foriegn oil rather then drilling here, rather than increasing the number of nuclear power plants.

I'm all for a combination of sustainable energy along with traditional oil/gas. However, the past political policies that have made it next to impossible to drill here, to build new refineries, and to make nuclear power a greater contributor to our electric power needs, must be reversed. Why is this country not pushing forward with hydrogen powered vehicles and home fuel cells? Why are some less efficient technologies being pushed over other more efficient ones? Politics and paybacks to chronies need to take a backseat to national security via energy independence, IMO. It is simply insane that we burn food product (corn & soybean) to drive our cars.
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:17 PM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,279,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Yet this problem came about by political policies that force the US to purchase foriegn oil rather then drilling here, rather than increasing the number of nuclear power plants.

I'm all for a combination of sustainable energy along with traditional oil/gas. However, the past political policies that have made it next to impossible to drill here, to build new refineries, and to make nuclear power a greater contributor to our electric power needs, must be reversed. Why is this country not pushing forward with hydrogen powered vehicles and home fuel cells? Why are some less efficient technologies being pushed over other more efficient ones? Politics and paybacks to chronies need to take a backseat to national security via energy independence, IMO. It is simply insane that we burn food product (corn & soybean) to drive our cars.

Nuclear power plants still rely on a foreign energy source, the U.S. is a very small player, probably for the lack of high density ore that other countries have. Canada would love the U.S. to shift to Nuclear, since they have around 23% of the mining capacity. I would rather have Canada with my money than the middle east..... Fossil fuels are non renewable, and I feel we should preserve our reserves, and we should invest heavily in energy alternatives that are sustainable and favor the U.S.'s economic growth.
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Old 08-16-2010, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Lincoln County Road or Armageddon
5,032 posts, read 7,236,747 times
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I'm figuring our #1 export is jobs.
You're right about infrastructure investment, though. Those who hold the power seem more concerned with blowing things up and extremely short sighted goals (oil and more oil) than investing in the future.
There was a great episode of "Frontline" that explored how vulnerable and antiquated our power grid is. Scary stuff.
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Old 08-16-2010, 05:46 PM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,961,323 times
Reputation: 12828
Default China passes Japan to become 2nd largest GDP

I think the OP was on target about wealth being our greatest export. It is not all oil.

We need to also put the brakes on hard and bring manufacturing back to the USA. We import way too much from China in consumer goods, sent too many jobs there. The $Billions sent to China every month in interest payment on our debt is insane.

With our exported wealth to China they are building both infrastructure and their military while ten of millions of their own people live in abject poverty.

Meanwhile our incopetant and greedy politicians behave like vultures fighting with the banks and Wall Street over the remains of a once great nation.

Today it has been reported that China became the 2nd largest economy, surpassing Japan in GDP.

News Headlines (http://www.cnbc.com/id/38721701 - broken link)

China's nominal GDP was 34.0507 trillion yuan ($5.013 trillion) in 2009, compared with Japan's nominal GDP of 474.303 trillion yen ($5.503 trillion), data from the two governments showed.

China's per capita income of about $3,800 a year is still a fraction of Japan's or America's, but China's economic ascent is gradually translating into clout on the world stage, even as Japan's influence appears to fade.
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:05 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,909,608 times
Reputation: 18305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werone View Post
"US consumers taste for large gas guzzlers—pickups, SUVs and minivans accounted for more than 50% of new car sales in the US from 2001-2007—the US underwent a massive exporting of wealth to the Middle East over the last seven years.
Collectively, the Gulf Cooperation Council’s [GCC]—Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates—economy more than doubled between 2001 and 2006. Similarly, the GCC trade surplus has exploded above $500 billion and is now closing in on $700+ billion.


This transfer of wealth also fueled one of the biggest infrastructure booms in history. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and other areas in the region have transformed from semi-desert regions to burgeoning metropolises. Altogether, the GCC plans to invest more than $1.6 trillion in infrastructure in the next five years. Some of the more striking projects:
  • King Abdullah City: a 68 square mile city built in Saudi Arabia.
  • Dubailand: a 3 billion square foot theme park twice the size of Walt Disney World in Dubai.
  • Silk City: a $136 billion, 250 square kilometer city in Kuwait."
I think we need to think about sustainability here....... or else. The switch to electric vehicles, a transition to intelligent and efficient electric power distribution. The alternative is to leave things the way they are and lose or hemhorrage money to other regions and have less here in America.
We have been exporting wealth since the 70's when we started to shutdown driling inthsi country. We alos for deacdes have shutdown nuclear elctric production unlike France who how produces 70% of their needs from it.We have become a consumer while at the same time producing less and less. Those place by teh way are not built only on US consumption of crude but a growing and competitive world market especailly in china and other energing countries.Een whe people called for building new refineries the invest class laugh knowing no on e want to go down that road because of the permits;regualation;fight injuction by evoronmental groups being impossible in this country same as it is with many things.This is one og the poorest choices to try to build anything now days.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:42 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
56 posts, read 285,029 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werone View Post
"US consumers taste for large gas guzzlers—pickups, SUVs and minivans accounted for more than 50% of new car sales in the US from 2001-2007—the US underwent a massive exporting of wealth to the Middle East over the last seven years.
Collectively, the Gulf Cooperation Council’s [GCC]—Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates—economy more than doubled between 2001 and 2006. Similarly, the GCC trade surplus has exploded above $500 billion and is now closing in on $700+ billion.

This transfer of wealth also fueled one of the biggest infrastructure booms in history. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and other areas in the region have transformed from semi-desert regions to burgeoning metropolises. Altogether, the GCC plans to invest more than $1.6 trillion in infrastructure in the next five years. Some of the more striking projects:
  • King Abdullah City: a 68 square mile city built in Saudi Arabia.
  • Dubailand: a 3 billion square foot theme park twice the size of Walt Disney World in Dubai.
  • Silk City: a $136 billion, 250 square kilometer city in Kuwait."
I think we need to think about sustainability here....... or else. The switch to electric vehicles, a transition to intelligent and efficient electric power distribution. The alternative is to leave things the way they are and lose or hemhorrage money to other regions and have less here in America.
I have no idea how this electric vehicle thing all of a sudden became part of pop culture.

Electricity is not an alternative energy source. Electricity is a result of the use of some other form of energy, mainly burning coal. There is absolutely no feasible way of creating enough electricity on a daily basis to power the millions upon millions of cars in the US.

I'm not bashing your point at all, I agree with most of the points you have raised. However if any progress is to be made, Americans must downsize. We put ourselves in this situation to some extent by purchasing these oversized vehicles that we do not need.
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:26 PM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,279,743 times
Reputation: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trah332 View Post
I have no idea how this electric vehicle thing all of a sudden became part of pop culture.

Electricity is not an alternative energy source. Electricity is a result of the use of some other form of energy, mainly burning coal. There is absolutely no feasible way of creating enough electricity on a daily basis to power the millions upon millions of cars in the US.

I'm not bashing your point at all, I agree with most of the points you have raised. However if any progress is to be made, Americans must downsize. We put ourselves in this situation to some extent by purchasing these oversized vehicles that we do not need.
Electric vehicles must make sense. Absolutely. I believe that there will be a breakthrough in battery technology in the next 5 years. The energy that can be stored in a battery and the range and power of the vehicle will increase... but it must start somewhere. The dependence on fossil fuels from other countries, that is what drives my belief in Electric Vehicles, and many like me. I disagree on the ability to power vehicles with electricity, there is 800 to 1000 watts of solar energy per meter squared that hits the earth on a clear day. If we can harvest 15%, that would equate to 120 - 150 watts per meter squared, and the amount of power we can pack into a battery would be the only limit. You could harness energy while you drive, park and go to work.... there are so many ways we could harness the energy from the sun everyday!
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,821,925 times
Reputation: 24863
The problem with downsizing for a substantial number of Americans is that it means going from little to none. Switching middle class American suburbanites from giant SUVs to Aleros is one thing. Switching a poor family from a 15 yr old Toyota to walking is another. Same idea applies to housing as well. McMansion to tract house is possible but broken down apartment to the shed is not really acceptable. Poor America can't downsize because they have never been sized.
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,854 posts, read 51,237,332 times
Reputation: 58749
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The problem with downsizing for a substantial number of Americans is that it means going from little to none. Switching middle class American suburbanites from giant SUVs to Aleros is one thing. Switching a poor family from a 15 yr old Toyota to walking is another. Same idea applies to housing as well. McMansion to tract house is possible but broken down apartment to the shed is not really acceptable. Poor America can't downsize because they have never been sized.
This post is so important due to us, myself included, spending so much time focusing on the excess of people, that we often forget those who are on their last dime each and every week. They have to buy cheap imported goods or they wouldn't be able to even afford a towel. Many have to take the bus which is a big monthly expense for them because of gas prices. The cost of rent continues to climb due to the supply/demand of all the foreclosure people now renting.

And worse than anything....these are the people who would be more than willing to work in manufacturing for a decent lower wage if only those jobs have not been shipped elsewhere. They are the ones who are suffering the most. Again, I'm not referring to dead beats, I'm referring to people who would be totally happy being in a lower income bracket if they could survive.

These folks can't even begin to afford solar panels or electric cars. I make a decent wage and I couldn't afford those things either.

I don't know what the answer would be, but GregW is timely in reminding us that some people out there can't really go much lower. We have GOT to find a way to look out for our own....before worrying about the living standards in other countries.
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