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Sad to say I know but I think these kinds of tragedies are just a part of hanging out with other human beings. Not all of us function properly. I don't think we can prevent them.
It might be our attitude here, maybe we should take a look at it. Other countries that have weapons don't have the rate of crime we do. Some without weapons don't either. I wonder if it's the guns or the attitudes of the people in different countries that make this so. Food for thought anyway.
Two things may stop this sprees:
1)Lock all the weirdos instead of grating them a reduction of sentence because of this and that (unable to understand etc)
2)Quit interpreting literally the Constitution and start to think that maybe the days of an America as a virgin hostile land populated with dangerous "Natives" is actually gone.
The Constitution is what the Supreme Court says it is..
That is what it is today but not what the Framers of the Constitution had in mine i.e. judicial activism. With the passage of time it is what it has become. At this point the Constitution has become useless because the nation now accepts what their agenda may be.
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Originally Posted by Ollie1946
Congress can pass what legislation they want. The trials begin. A ruling is made. End of the story. There is a very good chance that Mr. Obama will get to make 2 more nominations to the court. Likely, that court is going to lean very much to the left. May see a couple of more women on the court. Hence, gun laws supported by court rulings which is allowed under the Constitution.
I am not sure you are aware of the Constitution requirement regarding laws. The branch with the highest power is Congress, not the Supreme Court. However, Congress in time has accepted what the Supreme Court says. They have abdicated their authority to the Supreme Court. The day they decide to execute the power they have according to the Constitution then less judicial activism will happen. I do not thin that will happen anytime soon. The nation as a whole think the Supreme Court is the final word which is not.
In looking at the whole picture, the right to be alive is the most important. To the children in Connecticut, they will never get to enjoy their right to vote or bear arms or anything else, because another citizen chose to take away their basic right to LIFE.
In principle I do agree with you. So are you saying we need to give up our freedom if that saves lives? For the sake of argument, what do you suggest it needs to be done?
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Originally Posted by kayanne
I said in my opening post that a knee-jerk reaction will not solve the problem. But I am open-minded enough to look at statistics and data as it continues to be collected, and to consider accepting fewer rights of some types if it means more people will statistically have a greater chance at LIFE.
Here is where stats can be a problem. We can find stats supporting both side regarding ownership of guns. What fewer rights are you talking about? Care to expand on that?
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Originally Posted by kayanne
It seems it is worth respectfully and intelligently considering what changes could be enacted, rather than holding so tightly to "our rights" that they don't even want to have the conversation.
Agreed, but what changes you believe need to get enacted? I do believe holding our rights but what rights are you talking about that you think we need to look at? There some principles in life that some people may consider sacred others do not. Tell me your views.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne
The Constitution is said to be a living document, and its interpretation may need to change as society changes, if it is to truly protect our rights.
I am not of the school of thought of the Living Document Constitution. We can take care of any societal issues if we stick with the principles listed in the Constitution. The Living Document usually leaves issues at the hands of a few individual in the Supreme Court who make decisions that will affect the nation in some cases for generations with ill effects.
I am aware that society changes and so what we want as a nation. Jefferson did address this point. I can't find the exact words that are written on the wall of his memorial in Washington D.C. He basically said that laws will change as society changes. I agree with that. What I also believe is that he supports that based on the original intents of that Framers came up with in the Constitution. The Constitution can be used under the original intent by following what is written in it.
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Originally Posted by kayanne
It's kind of like traveling by airplane these days. (not a perfect analogy, since the Constitution doesn't talk about flight security). It's a bit of a nuisance to take my little 3 ounce bottles of liquid in a ziplock baggie, instead of full size products, and to remove my belt and shoes when going through security. But I don't recall any airplanes being blown up in recent years, so I gladly deal with the restrictions.
The Constitution does not have to say about everythin little thing is life. It simply stated some enumerated principles the Congress has to follow, the States have to follow, the President has to follow, and the Supreme Court have to follow. Under those principles many laws can be enacted within the realm of responsiblity of each branch and the states.
However, in my opinion the Federal Government has overpowered the states to the point that more and more they have become less and less important on the local affairs of their constituents.
The Framers of the Constitution had this fear and now history proved them right. It is now almost impossible for the federal government to give back what the Framers had in mind that belong to the states.
^^^ Guns have a purpose too! But you cannot/refuse to SEE that simply because you don't like them...
If you notice I specifically said military grade guns.
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Originally Posted by SarasotaBound1
Have you been to manhattan? I've seen hundreds crossing the street in minutes.
Purpose means jack if the killer's purpose is to kill. You are missing the point. Anyway, how do you intend to remove guns from the bad guys? You think making them illegal is gonna help?
Did you read my post? Gasoline killed 90 people, the fact that it provided power makes no difference. Death is death..
The left always knee-jerks at every single issue and looks for the most obvious copout. Blame it on guns...easy.
My good man, I agree that hummers/knives/bow-arrows etc can be used to commit mass-murder.
My claim is that you cannot do it as quickly and as easily as you can do with a militray grade weapon.
Also, one isolated incident involving gasoline doesn't prove anything.
If the number of incidents using gasoline and military-grade weapons were even roughly close, you would have a point.
My last post on this topic and a food for thought.
I can assure you that hummers/knives/bow-arrows exist in the entire western world.
Then why doesn't any other country in the west have mass-murders at a similar rate to us?
P.S I work in Manhattan and I am neither a liberal nor a conservative, just an ordinary citizen.
1)Lock all the weirdos instead of grating them a reduction of sentence because of this and that (unable to understand etc)
2)Quit interpreting literally the Constitution and start to think that maybe the days of an America as a virgin hostile land populated with dangerous "Natives" is actually gone.
The problem is identifying the so-called weirdos all of whom so far had not criminal convictions which means that your argument is a non-starter.
As for your second proposal, I don't think that it is a problem of literalness but liberalness, the view that the 2nd Amendment means any and all weapons.
With regards to the original question,
Outside of building schools like high security prisons I don't think that there is any fool proof answer to the question, but we can make kids more safe, and one place to start is with sane gun laws.
Two things may stop this sprees:
1)Lock all the weirdos instead of grating them a reduction of sentence because of this and that (unable to understand etc)
2)Quit interpreting literally the Constitution and start to think that maybe the days of an America as a virgin hostile land populated with dangerous "Natives" is actually gone.
As to #1 the perpetrators of these crimes haven't been convicted criminals, so this would have no effect.
As to #2 I assume you are referring to our Constitutional right to bear arms. I understand that you are in Italy and may not have a deep appreciation for our history, but the founders of our country did not adopt the Second Amendment so we could defend ourselves against "dangerous 'Natives'." It is there so we can defend ourselves against a tyrannical government, something they had just done in our Revolutionary War against England. You might have some appreciation for the type of situation they were trying to avoid, being that the Italians were powerless to defend themselves from a Fascist Mussolini, and as a people suffered greatly because of it.
It seems it is worth respectfully and intelligently considering what changes could be enacted, rather than holding so tightly to "our rights" that they don't even want to have the conversation. The Constitution is said to be a living document, and its interpretation may need to change as society changes, if it is to truly protect our rights.
If by "our rights" you mean the Second Amendment prohibition against laws interfering with our right to bear arms, there is a way to lawfully change that. We would simply amend the Constitution to repeal the Second Amendment! and then Congress could outright ban all firearms.
Ah, you say, but that process is arduous and we could never get Congress and the states to approve such an amendment.
Well, you can if it reflects the will of the people. After all, the Constitution has been amended numerous times. Perhaps you suspect that the majority of people would not support such a change, but nonetheless wish to impose you will (your morality?) on others.
If by "our rights" you mean the Second Amendment prohibition against laws interfering with our right to bear arms, there is a way to lawfully change that. We would simply amend the Constitution to repeal the Second Amendment! and then Congress could outright ban all firearms.
Ah, you say, but that process is arduous and we could never get Congress and the states to approve such an amendment.
Well, you can if it reflects the will of the people. After all, the Constitution has been amended numerous times. Perhaps you suspect that the majority of people would not support such a change, but nonetheless wish to impose you will (your morality?) on others.
Agreed, that is what many people do not consider. They just want Big Brother to ennact laws not following the principles of the Constitution. When an ammendment route is used, once it is accepted it was "We The People" who accepted it, not Big Brother. Take care.
Why does a citizen need that kind of fire power? To defend this country.
Rome sat high and pompous for hundreds of prosperous years. Even but the slightest inclination of thought concerning invasion was cause for a roar of laughter and back slapping. They got invaded... women raped, the place sacked, and son's and husbands left dead in the street. The writings of the time reflect how surreal and seeming imaginary it was.
All this talk about citizens not "needing" such weapons for hunting and such I don't even use my AR for hunting so... Was that suppose to rationalize something, cause I missed it?
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women raped, the place sacked, and son's and husbands left dead in the street. The writings of the time reflect how surreal and seeming imaginary it was.
I don't even use my AR for hunting so...
