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Old 10-20-2013, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Waiting for a streetcar
1,137 posts, read 1,395,460 times
Reputation: 1124

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DauntlessDan View Post
Tell all of us reading this thread please, I am NOT being snotty but inquisitive, where is the end point? At what point do you say "There, we've accomplished what we set out to do. We can rest now"? And please don't give me a sarcastic @#%^& answer either.
Have blacks reached this supposed "end point" yet? Jews? Women? Muslims? Atheists? Hispanics? Anybody? How about Native Americans? HINT: There is NEVER an end as long as hatred continues to be passed by haters from one generation to the next. Have you checked to see what role you might be playing in that process? I am of course NOT being snotty or critical here, just inquisitive.

The rest of your post was about as disingenuous as they come. There is boundless documentation of anti-gay organizations contributing heavily to reactionary political elements, distributing tainted rubbish as if it were actual information, and helping to create a hostile workplace for gays engaged merely in the work of simple day-to-day living. The people behind and participating in this effort justly deserve to be labeled, attacked, and condemned.
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Old 10-20-2013, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Waiting for a streetcar
1,137 posts, read 1,395,460 times
Reputation: 1124
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
There is no question that the LGBT movement has developed to a point where it need have little fear of direct persecution, But as with the responsible components of those of us who put individual, rather than collective rights at the forefront, it would do itself a favor by disassociation with the most irresponsible among its ranks.
The lengths that some will go to in search of self-justification. In libertarian terms, gay rights is an open-and-shut case, one where the jury deliberates for about two minutes -- virtually all of that accounted for by the time it takes to walk to and then back from the jury room. The tactics employed by gay advocates and the nature of, and other political ends favored by, supporters and allies of gays are not in the least bit relevant or material to the matter of gay rights.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,255,272 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
I hold strong conservative beliefs on economic issues, but have identified myself as a libertarian on most social issues for over forty years. As such, I believe that personal and economic freedoms are unitary and inseparable; tamper with one, and the other will invariably be compromised, because the abuse of the government's legal monopoly of force is an addictive drug. Although I question a "purist" libertarian stance on some issues such as hard drugs and the need to advance the progress of tested, pluralistic democracy, I view what consenting adults do behind closed doors as no one's business but their own.

The depleting ranks of the "traditionalist" or "absolutist" conservatives have been an embarrassment to those of us who base our beliefs and values on more empirical, logically-based standards for decades. But I also have friends and relatives, not all of them elderly, who hold to strong Christian beliefs -- some of them for reasons such as a developmentally-disabled child, or previous support with other exposures among life's darkest corners.

But my principal reservation with regard to the LGBT movement is its shallowness and superficiality; it repeatedly seeks to align itself with the collection of those "on the fringes" who form the mainstream constituency for those who advocate greater governmental influence in many sectors of our lives -- sometimes personal as well as economic if the Cause of the Moment has potential to expand their coalition.

And finally, I must point out that a substantial portion of the opposition to the LGBT advocacy comes from those who view their lifestyle as that of society's "slackers" now advocating same-sex unions as a further stress on the public treasury. I know from personal experience, having rented property to a same-sex couple, for example, that this isn't always the case -- many people who come out in later life have borne the responsibility of raising children, and one of my tenants fled from an abusive "straight" marriage, But this was one of the exceptions which does little to change the public perception, particularly of the large proportion of LGBT's who are young and unencumbered.

There is no question that the LGBT movement has developed to a point where it need have little fear of direct persecution, But as with the responsible components of those of us who put individual, rather than collective rights at the forefront, it would do itself a favor by disassociation with the most irresponsible among its ranks.
No, the LGBT that are upstanding, responsible citizens are not the exception. We are the ones you don't notice, we are the majority. Just because we don't stand out does not mean that we are not there.

You notice the guys in outlandish clothing, or the flannel wearing lesbians because they are the stereotype. You don't notice me in my dress and heels, or jeans and tee shirts, because I look and act just like everyone else. You don't notice the preacher that is gay who is a part of a local equality group. Or the lesbian couple that are teachers, and just adopted their second baby. We are everywhere. We simply look and act like your neighbors, and co-workers.

As for your statement on stressing the public treasury. The CBO says differently
. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...exmarriage.pdf

There is an estimated improvement of the federal bottom line of about $1 Billion a year for the next 10 years if SSM were legal in all 50 states.
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