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Suicide should be a society-sanctioned option. And no family member should be able to get in the way.
Put the person in psychotherapy for 6 months (meds rarely do anything to help). If, at the end of the six months, the person still wants to die -- let the person die.
My adult daughter committed suicide. She was 28, was mentally ill, had been mentally ill for more than half her life, and was on a lot of meds with bad side effects. She found a way out. That was 15 years ago. While I still love her and miss her, I still respect her decision.
Wow, that is some strong nanny state advocacy language there.
If it is to be society(government) - sanctioned and no family member can run interference, why put said person into psychotherapy for 6 months? So someone can use mind control over them and sway their decision? I guess its better for the nanny state to jail them than have a relative communicate with them, right? How successful is psychotherapy?
Suicide should be a society-sanctioned option. And no family member should be able to get in the way.
Put the person in psychotherapy for 6 months (meds rarely do anything to help). If, at the end of the six months, the person still wants to die -- let the person die.
My adult daughter committed suicide. She was 28, was mentally ill, had been mentally ill for more than half her life, and was on a lot of meds with bad side effects. She found a way out. That was 15 years ago. While I still love her and miss her, I still respect her decision.
Even without it being sanctioned, your daughter was able to commit suicide. So what's the point of the sanctions?
What is a "society-sanction?" You want to force society to think like you do about this topic? You need millions of people to agree with you?
If someone is dying (willingly), and you happen to be on site, you won't have a legal duty to "rescue" them. You won't be accused of murder because you didn't save them.
Or so that you could freely buy the things to aid you in the process.
And so that you could do it peacefully without having to believe that you're doing something wrong. Afterall, when people go to another country (to never see their relatives again) no one is saying they are being bad and doing something wrong. And for SOME people it's important to feel good and not guilty about what they are doing.
But currently society says: care about others more than about your self. Never mind your pain. It doesn't matter. Just stay here so that others don't have to suffer.
That doesn't seem fair either.
Right now, most of medicine has side effects which some people do not want to live with. So for them, there is no good fix.
Last edited by LoveWisdom; 10-17-2013 at 09:51 PM..
Wow, that is some strong nanny state advocacy language there.
If it is to be society(government) - sanctioned and no family member can run interference, why put said person into psychotherapy for 6 months? So someone can use mind control over them and sway their decision? I guess its better for the nanny state to jail them than have a relative communicate with them, right? How successful is psychotherapy?
Your last five words are the only to make sense.
Lots of times people just want 'out'. Their psychic pain and/or physical pain is so bad that the only way out of that pain, that they can see, is suicide. Sometimes (and I think it would be the vast majority of the time), a therapist/counselor can 'hear' whether or not that person REALLY wants to commit suicide**. Secondly, a therapist/counselor may have very viable alternatives to suicide. Thirdly, just the act of talking with someone, who the person knows won't and can't relay what the person says to their family, is enough to stop a suicide. (Now, when a person is deemed suicidal, the therapist has to 'report' the patient, and the patient winds up 5150'd. What good does THAT do?)
**For instance, in just my own life and I'm sure in all of our lives, I'll be talking with someone (who is REALLY listening -- that's a rarity these days) and he/she will respond, "What you are saying is 'this'. But what I hear you saying is 'that'. Could I be right?" And suddenly the 'lights' start going on in my head.
If I were suicidal, why would I want to talk to an emotional relative (probably more than one) who wants me to stay around just so the relative(s) doesn't have to grieve my death?
I think that very often suicide is The Ultimate Liar. Barring the old, the elderly, those with very painful and debilitating diseases and illnesses and injuries, and those who have terminal illnesses (because I think all these people should be able to go whenever they want), I think most other people, who want to kill themselves, really don't want to kill themselves. They just think they have no alternative(s). A professional can determine if their desire is sincere, and whether it's sincere or not, the professional can offer viable alternatives.
And I'm not saying that family and friends can't ever help at all. I'm just saying that a trained professional can offer more than relatives who may be trying to (primarily) 'guilt' a person out of his/her decision.
I KNOW people who have come home to find their spouse dead from a gun shot, their son hanging in the garage, a daughter dead from a drug overdose. No one should have to die that way. And their friends and relatives shouldn't ever have to go through that trauma either.
16-17 years ago, a very close friend of mine, who was in her 40s and who was very successful -- and, had she lived, would have continued to be very successful -- stood on train tracks in our city and committed suicide. She was head of the math department of a very big college. She was loved by everyone. She gave no one any indication that she was suicidal, and she devastated everyone who knew and loved her. My heart still hurts whenever I think of her. She even changed the life of the train conductor who said that every time he closed his eyes he could see "the blueness of her eyes". He gave up his job, because he was too traumatized to conduct anymore.
How different things might have been if she had been able to see a professional without anyone knowing.
Look, death is never 'pretty' and/or 'easy'. But assisted suicide is A LOT LESS traumatic on both the person who wants to die and the relatives and friends who love them.
Even without it being sanctioned, your daughter was able to commit suicide. So what's the point of the sanctions?
What is a "society-sanction?" You want to force society to think like you do about this topic? You need millions of people to agree with you?
No one has to agree with me. I just agree with millions of people who already think that assisted suicide should be available in every state in our country. And it's already happening. Three states have "assisted suicide" for those who are terminally ill and deemed by their doctors to be within 6 months of death. I may be wrong but I think every state -- or almost every state -- will have legalized it within the next 10-20 years.
I don't know if there will ever come a time when just anyone who wants to end their lives, for whatever reason(s) they have, will be able to do so. I can only hope that a time will come when a person who REALLY wants to end their lives will be able to do so, comfortably. And I emphasize REALLY wants to -- because I think that if suicide wasn't such a big 'taboo', a lot less people would be killing themselves.
Yes, my daughter was able to commit suicide anyway (you're compassion is just SO touching -- you are just SO kind ), but it was pretty ugly. She didn't have to die -- at least not like that. Plus, I wasn't traumatized because I had thought for years that she might kill herself -- but the rest of the family was SO traumatized. I think that if she and her family and friends had been able to prepare and to say goodbye, it would have been much easier on everyone. No, I KNOW it would have been.
Even without it being sanctioned, your daughter was able to commit suicide. So what's the point of the sanctions?
What is a "society-sanction?" You want to force society to think like you do about this topic? You need millions of people to agree with you?
"Society-sanctioned" would be something like assisted suicide in which a person who was terminally ill could choose the means in which to die without repercussions from the law. It is legal in my state. They were legally able to do so because it was sanctioned.
No one forces society to accept it, rather the voters voted to approve it for those who chose to avail themselves of it under the terms of the law which was put in place allowing it. I know of two people who chose assisted suicide.
If you've ever suffered with long term mental illness, suicide is most certainly not a permanent solution to a so-called temporary problem. Just because you cannot see someone's pain, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Some people simply cannot live fulfilling lives and either end up destitute, homeless or incarcerated when they have no support network to turn to. It is very judgmental of people to dismiss such pain, just because it's not tangible.
Euthanasia should be legal and it should be administered painlessly to those who would benefit from it and cannot be cured and do not wish to be treated.
When we have the ability to cure mental illnesses, take care of the poor with dignity then maybe I'll get back to you with a different answer.
It isn't suicide if you are wanting someone else to do it. I suggest you contact social services if you are personally having issues. And, how do you know the death is "painless", anymore painless then self-administered suicide? If you don't have the ability to do the deed yourself, perhaps you do have a reason to live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveWisdom
My point was that there are many ways that are painless that are available, but people are not allowed to use them. Most people feel trapped in life because they are also too scared to end it because it's "a horrible way to die".
It's like saying: there is a choice to use drugs... you just have to go into dark and dangerous places to find it.
There is a choice to love someone of the opposite sex, you just have to make sure no one finds out (speaking of the places where it's still prohibited).
I still don't see how you are in a position to determine what someone feels when dying. You actually don't have to go into dark and dangerous places to find drugs either, not anymore. And, your introducing homosexuality into the mix becomes disturbing since there is a higher rate of suicide in that group. The issue with that is that in countries where it is out in the open, there is still a higher rate of suicide among homosexuals. There are choices there also, either try to change or learn to accept yourself and not base your life on what others think.
There was a physician that lived in a neighborhood that we lived in and with the wealth of drugs that would have been at his finger tips, he chose to go into his basement and shot himself on New Year's Day. So, you wonder why if the drugs would have been at his finger tips and it would have been such a peaceful death why he didn't choose the drugs.
When I was a kid, we had a neighbor who was mentally ill. He had two sons that rode our school bus. One weekend he came, it was Halloween and I remember seeing him when we went to their house to treat or treat and that weekend when it was time for him to go back to the mental hospital, he sat on the stairway and shot himself with the family in the house. I remember seeing the pain in the faces of his boys and his wife.
Another neighbor when casually placed on a certain drug for her depression, and totally out of character, tried to commit suicide and luckily, she was unsuccessful. Her mother was devastated and told me what drug she had been put on. I went home and ran the drug, copied it for the mother and took it to her saying "Maybe this will help you understand what went wrong."
I also wonder how many people might have taken advantage of "assisted" suicide (an oxymoron) if it were available and today are darn glad to be living. It is a FINAL decision.
It isn't suicide if you are wanting someone else to do it. I suggest you contact social services if you are personally having issues. And, how do you know the death is "painless", anymore painless then self-administered suicide? If you don't have the ability to do the deed yourself, perhaps you do have a reason to live.
I still don't see how you are in a position to determine what someone feels when dying. You actually don't have to go into dark and dangerous places to find drugs either, not anymore. And, your introducing homosexuality into the mix becomes disturbing since there is a higher rate of suicide in that group. The issue with that is that in countries where it is out in the open, there is still a higher rate of suicide among homosexuals. There are choices there also, either try to change or learn to accept yourself and not base your life on what others think.
There was a physician that lived in a neighborhood that we lived in and with the wealth of drugs that would have been at his finger tips, he chose to go into his basement and shot himself on New Year's Day. So, you wonder why if the drugs would have been at his finger tips and it would have been such a peaceful death why he didn't choose the drugs.
When I was a kid, we had a neighbor who was mentally ill. He had two sons that rode our school bus. One weekend he came, it was Halloween and I remember seeing him when we went to their house to treat or treat and that weekend when it was time for him to go back to the mental hospital, he sat on the stairway and shot himself with the family in the house. I remember seeing the pain in the faces of his boys and his wife.
Another neighbor when casually placed on a certain drug for her depression, and totally out of character, tried to commit suicide and luckily, she was unsuccessful. Her mother was devastated and told me what drug she had been put on. I went home and ran the drug, copied it for the mother and took it to her saying "Maybe this will help you understand what went wrong."
I also wonder how many people might have taken advantage of "assisted" suicide (an oxymoron) if it were available and today are darn glad to be living. It is a FINAL decision.
You do not seem to understand what assisted suicide is. No one administers the drugs but the person themselves. There is no doctor present. The person takes the meds and the only people around him or her are the people he or she requests to be there. In Oregon, in order to use assisted suicide, a person has to be medically certifiable terminally ill. That person also has to go through psychological testing to make certain he or she completely understands what the situation is. A mentally ill person unable to make that decsion would not be eligible for assisted suicide under these circumstances. No one can make the decision to use that option for them.
Once it has been determined that the terminally ill patient, usually due to Cancer, is eligible for assisted suicide, I believe it has to be within a period of six months time, he or she is given a prescription that will cause death. How, when and who will be present is entirely up to that person.
There is no trying and not succeeding and living as you have suggested because the person is dying, they know it and this gives them the opportunity to sometimes avoid great pain if they are in pain, deterioration and have their loved ones around then when they go if they choose. It's in their control. It is a final decision and it is their final decision.
You do not seem to understand what assisted suicide is.
There is a lot of confusion among some here indeed. To your excellent post, I only wanted to add mention that for some in confronting the certain end of a battle with cancer, assisted suicide allows the patient final victory over those murderous vermin cells. Everything has been tried to kill them. Much pain and anguish has been invested to achievinbg that objective, but in the end to no avail. But the patient has the last word. By ending his or her own life, the life of those cells is ended as well. A life that ends in victory, instead of defeat. No small thing, actually.
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