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Why would you move to France to live but cling to American culture and never learn the language of France? That would make no sense to me..
And these are the very people who will hate NYC because there are "too many foreigners".
Only 15% of Dominican immigrants speak no English. I am willing to bet these are either old people, home makers, or recent immigrants. People who arrived young enough to attend school, and those who work learn English.
It is a xenophobic fallacy that immigrants refuse to learn English.
Go even to the USVI, and one will see "statesiders" living in enclaves separate from the rest of the population, yet DEMANDING that the others adjust to THEM!
So why should Americans live overseas but spit on those countries' cultures and then adopt nativist attitudes to immigrants here.? I am NOT referring to US civil servants. I am referring to people who live PERMANENTLY in these countries.
Most of the signs that are in foreign languages are aimed at POOR people, most RECENT arrivals and are in situations where there will need to be a PERFECT understanding of what is being said.
85% of Dominican immigrants speak English, and 60% report speaking it VERY WELL. Dominicans are heavily skewed to the NY/NJ area where there are many accommodations for non English speakers, and yet they know that in order to progress they will have to speak the language used by the broadest cross section of the population, and that is ENGLISH!
Why would someone permanently live in a different country yet refuse to adopt anything from the culture? That makes no sense. It doesn't matter if you're an American or not. If you're going to live there, adopt the culture. If you don't like the culture, leave. If living there as an American makes you uncomfortable to adopt the culture, give up the citizenship and become a citizen of that country. It's not that difficult.
And these are the very people who will hate NYC because there are "too many foreigners".
Only 15% of Dominican immigrants speak no English. I am willing to bet these are either old people, home makers, or recent immigrants. People who arrived young enough to attend school, and those who work learn English.
It is a xenophobic fallacy that immigrants refuse to learn English.
They may learn it but many of them refuse to speak it unless they have to and it is particularly true when they are out in mainstream America. So they do not totally assimilate today. It has nothing to do with xenophobia on the part of native born Americans.
Go even to the USVI, and one will see "statesiders" living in enclaves separate from the rest of the population, yet DEMANDING that the others adjust to THEM!
So why should Americans live overseas but spit on those countries' cultures and then adopt nativist attitudes to immigrants here.? I am NOT referring to US civil servants. I am referring to people who live PERMANENTLY in these countries.
Most of the signs that are in foreign languages are aimed at POOR people, most RECENT arrivals and are in situations where there will need to be a PERFECT understanding of what is being said.
85% of Dominican immigrants speak English, and 60% report speaking it VERY WELL. Dominicans are heavily skewed to the NY/NJ area where there are many accommodations for non English speakers, and yet they know that in order to progress they will have to speak the language used by the broadest cross section of the population, and that is ENGLISH!
If that truly is the behavior of Americans living abroad then still two wrongs don't make a right, do they?
They may learn it but many of them refuse to speak it unless they have to and it is particularly true when they are out in mainstream America. So they do not totally assimilate today. It has nothing to do with xenophobia on the part of native born Americans.
Americans living in San Juan Puerto Rico speak English, except when they are in situations where they must use Spanish. They don't care whether this offends the locals. I am sure that the US retirees living in Costa Rica don't abandon English either. So I will argue that Americans living overseas are no better, and most likely worse than immigrants to the USA.
What would be bothersome is if immigrants to the USA REFUSED to learn English. But then most immigrants know that this is stupid, and that the people who will suffer most from this attitude will the THEMSELVES.
I have already indicated that only 15% of Dominicans CANNOT speak English. And this is not necessarily implying that they refuse to learn it. Obviously most of these Dominican immigrants learned English when they arrived in the USA, because they knew that their prospects and those of their kids will be greatly enhanced.
Aside from Miami, with its orientation to Latin America, because it has evolved as a commercial center for that region, I know if no part of the USA (except maybe along the Rio Grande region, but that opens up another debate about whether those people are immigrants or not) where immigrants refuse to learn English.
Ask yourself whether you just aren't comfortable with people who are culturally different from you, and that you would rather they became "American", using your notion about what this means.
Americans living in San Juan Puerto Rico speak English, except when they are in situations where they must use Spanish. They don't care whether this offends the locals. I am sure that the US retirees living in Costa Rica don't abandon English either. So I will argue that Americans living overseas are no better, and most likely worse than immigrants to the USA.
What would be bothersome is if immigrants to the USA REFUSED to learn English. But then most immigrants know that this is stupid, and that the people who will suffer most from this attitude will the THEMSELVES.
I have already indicated that only 15% of Dominicans CANNOT speak English. And this is not necessarily implying that they refuse to learn it. Obviously most of these Dominican immigrants learned English when they arrived in the USA, because they knew that their prospects and those of their kids will be greatly enhanced.
Aside from Miami, with its orientation to Latin America, because it has evolved as a commercial center for that region, I know if no part of the USA (except maybe along the Rio Grande region, but that opens up another debate about whether those people are immigrants or not) where immigrants refuse to learn English.
Ask yourself whether you just aren't comfortable with people who are culturally different from you, and that you would rather they became "American", using your notion about what this means.
As I said if Americans are being rude living abroad then they are wrong also. Again, two wrongs don't make a right.
I am not uncomfortable being among people of different cultures but then aren't we all a part of the melting pot which is our American identifying culture? Part of that identifying culture is the English language. My objection is citizens and immigrants that refuse to speak English unless they have to even when they know English. I don't care what language one chooses to speak at home but when out in mainstream blend in and don't be rude.
I am not uncomfortable being among people of different cultures but then aren't we all a part of the melting pot which is our American identifying culture? Part of that identifying culture is the English language. My objection is citizens and immigrants that refuse to speak English unless they have to even when they know English. I don't care what language one chooses to speak at home but when out in mainstream blend in and don't be rude.
If 85% of the Dominicans speak English, 60% speaking it well, then why this continued insistence from you that they refuse to speak English? Are you suggesting that they NEVER speak Spanish? I can assure you Italian, Yiddish and other European languages lasted well beyond the immigrant generation. So why the insistence that today's immigrants cease speaking their languages?
I have a strong suspicion that today's immigrants have a stronger proficiency in English than earlier immigrants did, because the days when one could have survived working in a factory where every one came from the same national group are over. Given that most of the jobs are now in the service sector an ability to talk to a variety of people is important.
Unless you are trying to listen to a PRIVATE conversation why should you care what they are saying? Are you also going to tell me that I am rude because I speak English with a Caribbean accent, but you would rather that I spoke as if I came from Indiana? Because when you insist on "blending" in and "melting pot" that is what you are doing. You demand that we all behave as if we came out of some factory, where each model must be built to the same exact specifications?
And what will be these specifications? Even people whose ancestry in this country is of many generations can't agree on what being an American is.
Rude is when one is in mixed company and one speaks a language that others in the group don't understand. But if people from a family are on the subway speaking to each other, and you aren't supposed to be part of the conversation, why should that bother you? If you insist on listening, why not use it as an opportunity to learn another language?
If 85% of the Dominicans speak English, 60% speaking it well, then why this continued insistence from you that they refuse to speak English? Are you suggesting that they NEVER speak Spanish? I can assure you Italian, Yiddish and other European languages lasted well beyond the immigrant generation. So why the insistence that today's immigrants cease speaking their languages?
I have a strong suspicion that today's immigrants have a stronger proficiency in English than earlier immigrants did, because the days when one could have survived working in a factory where every one came from the same national group are over. Given that most of the jobs are now in the service sector an ability to talk to a variety of people is important.
Unless you are trying to listen to a PRIVATE conversation why should you care what they are saying? Are you also going to tell me that I am rude because I speak English with a Caribbean accent, but you would rather that I spoke as if I came from Indiana? Because when you insist on "blending" in and "melting pot" that is what you are doing. You demand that we all behave as if we came out of some factory, where each model must be built to the same exact specifications?
And what will be these specifications? Even people whose ancestry in this country is of many generations can't agree on what being an American is.
Rude is when one is in mixed company and one speaks a language that others in the group don't understand. But if people from a family are on the subway speaking to each other, and you aren't supposed to be part of the conversation, why should that bother you? If you insist on listening, why not use it as an opportunity to learn another language?
First off where I live it is mostly those of Mexican roots that are constantly speaking Spanish out in mainstream America. I don't live around a lot of Dominicans that I know of. Most early immigrants wanted to assimilate to English and they did. Yes, they still spoke their native languages at home but that isn't the issue. They weren't all from the same national group either. You do know that they came from Ireland, Germany, Poland, Italy, etc. don't you?
The conversations aren't private in the sense that they aren't alone somewhere doing it. They speak it loudly where everyone can hear it. I am not interested in what they are saying but I don't understand why they feel the need to converse in Spanish when they do know English. I couldn't care less if one speaks English with an accent either at least they are making the effort to be respectful rather than being rude. I have heard many of them switch to English with ease when they had to. Sometimes it feels like I am living in Mexico. A stranger in my own country.
As I said, English is our de facto national language. It is a part of our culture that can't be denied so it has nothing to do with what we agree or disagree on. Facts aren't debatable.
All this talk about if we were all the same color we would get along is totally erroneous.
Stop. Think.
Africa is/was all black.
Did they all get along?
Are they all getting along now?
How far did skin color go in creating peace among them?
Did they all have the same culture?
How different were those cultures?
Of course at present there is the Muslims vs the Christian thing, but religious wars are noting new either.
I tried one time to determine the difference between a Huto and a Tootsy who were killing each other a while back. Didn't have much luck.
Most early immigrants wanted to assimilate to English and they did. Yes, they still spoke their native languages at home but that isn't the issue. They weren't all from the same national group either. You do know that they came from Ireland, Germany, Poland, Italy, etc. don't you?
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You go to parts of the Bronx and Brooklyn and you will still hear Italian spoken even though there hasn't been immigration from Italy in over 60 years. There was Yiddish theater in NYC for many years. The Lower East Side was packed with people not speaking English. Until recently there were also Italian language papers in NYC, and not directed at Italian visitors either.
Indeed there are parts of the Mid West where whole villages spoke German MANY GENERATIONS after the initial immigration, and this only ended in WWII for obvious reasons.
So I don't know what version of history you are peddling.
I repeat. Why does a family having a picnic in the park, eating their food, speaking their language and playing their music offend you?
I don't know where you live, but if its California, New Mexico or Texas, you do know that Spanish was spoken before English was.
What is apparent to me is that there is a double standard being peddled. A fantasy that European immigrants immediately forgot their language as soon as they left Ellis Island, rapidly joined the middle class, and never depended on social support.
Indeed one can prove that there is MORE upward mobility in this immigrant current wave, and more rapid assimilation. Compare the % of todays FOREIGN born who own homes, who are college educated, and who occupy professional/management occupations, with the wave which arrived through Ellis Island.
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