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You go to parts of the Bronx and Brooklyn and you will still hear Italian spoken even though there hasn't been immigration from Italy in over 60 years. There was Yiddish theater in NYC for many years. The Lower East Side was packed with people not speaking English. Until recently there were also Italian language papers in NYC, and not directed at Italian visitors either.
Indeed there are parts of the Mid West where whole villages spoke German MANY GENERATIONS after the initial immigration, and this only ended in WWII for obvious reasons.
So I don't know what version of history you are peddling.
I repeat. Why does a family having a picnic in the park, eating their food, speaking their language and playing their music offend you?
I don't know where you live, but if its California, New Mexico or Texas, you do know that Spanish was spoken before English was.
What is apparent to me is that there is a double standard being peddled. A fantasy that European immigrants immediately forgot their language as soon as they left Ellis Island, rapidly joined the middle class, and never depended on social support.
Indeed one can prove that there is MORE upward mobility in this immigrant current wave, and more rapid assimilation. Compare the % of todays FOREIGN born who own homes, who are college educated, and who occupy professional/management occupations, with the wave which arrived through Ellis Island.
Who has said that the European immigrants immediately forgot their languages? In a public place within earshot of others I still think it is rude to speak a foreign language if you know how to speak English. If you don't agree then so be it. It doesn't matter what language or languages were spoken in this country first it still doesn't change the fact that we adopted English as our de facto national language and that is the point!
I will only assimilate things from another culture if I recognize they have a better way of doing things. I am not just going to arbitrarily replace my customs with theirs just to fit in.
I will only assimilate things from another culture if I recognize they have a better way of doing things. I am not just going to arbitrarily replace my customs with theirs just to fit in.
It's not about that. It is about how one conducts oneself out in mainstream. Assimilating to our language should be a given. Why move here if one doesn't either want to learn and most importantly speak English?
He is right, we need to merge in order to end the pain, but even if we do, merge a new problem will occur. Look at East Asia, Orientals, Russia, Africa, and Latin America. Africa problem is that they want to live like they did 10,000 years ago but on the other side they want to deal with money. In various nations of Asia, they all get along but people still suffer problems, that leads to distance from their own culture. USSR obviously has it's problems, and Latin America have such beautiful people, and yet they have low life expectancy in their origin nations.
When globalization is achieve new barriers will be erected. So we need to tear down the barriers. Off to the Political conspiracy forums.
Who has said that the European immigrants immediately forgot their languages? In a public place within earshot of others I still think it is rude to speak a foreign language if you know how to speak English. If you don't agree then so be it. It doesn't matter what language or languages were spoken in this country first it still doesn't change the fact that we adopted English as our de facto national language and that is the point!
Why do you talk about todays immigrants as if they are any different from immigrants from other eras?
If an immigrant refuses to learn how to speak fluent English and how to fit into the work environment in the USA they hurt themselves. This is why most immigrants make learning English a priority.
What immigrants do outside of working hours is really THEIR business. Those who are offended because they dare to speak their language can move aside so they don't hear them.
This is a free country after all, and one which prides itself in its cultural diversity. We leave that narrow mindedness to the Europeans and Japanese. Long gone are the days when xenophobic nativists tried to force immigrants to become "Wonder bread" Americans. Indeed salsa has now overtaken ketchup as the USA's leading condiment. Budweiser is now owned by a Brazilian company.
It's not about that. It is about how one conducts oneself out in mainstream. Assimilating to our language should be a given. Why move here if one doesn't either want to learn and most importantly speak English?
What is the "mainstream". Taking a stroll through Central Park? A Chinese family eating dinner in an Italian restaurant?
So will you insist that tourists speak English too while out in public because if the use of a foreign language is offensive to some people, it doesn't matter who speaks it?
If people arrive in this country and refuse to speak English they are wrong. Speaking a foreign language in a job environment might be inappropriate under certain conditions, though among fellow employees enjoying coffee in the office cafeteria it isn't.
Why do you talk about todays immigrants as if they are any different from immigrants from other eras?
If an immigrant refuses to learn how to speak fluent English and how to fit into the work environment in the USA they hurt themselves. This is why most immigrants make learning English a priority.
What immigrants do outside of working hours is really THEIR business. Those who are offended because they dare to speak their language can move aside so they don't hear them.
This is a free country after all, and one which prides itself in its cultural diversity. We leave that narrow mindedness to the Europeans and Japanese. Long gone are the days when xenophobic nativists tried to force immigrants to become "Wonder bread" Americans. Indeed salsa has now overtaken ketchup as the USA's leading condiment. Budweiser is now owned by a Brazilian company.
Most of those refusing to "speak" English are Spanish speakers. Many of them are here illegally. Yes, it might be my business if I decide to spit on the sidewalk but it is still rude.
We have an identifying culture, language with minority ones living among us. Assimilation to ours out in mainstream (public) has always been desirable out of respect. As I said, I don't care what language or culture ones chooses to practice at home. There is nothing xenophobic or nativist about that. Tourists of course would be the exception, duh. They don't live here they are only visiting.
I have no idea what a "Wonder bread" American is. I wouldn't call our American blacks "Wonder breads" since the implication is whiteness. They speak English.
Salsa may prevelant in the southwest or even Miami but it isn't prevelant all over the U.S. What's that got to do with language assimilation or that Budweiser is owned by a Brazilian company?
Last edited by Oldhag1; 05-31-2014 at 06:59 AM..
Reason: All posts are expected to be civil
The trouble wiith this country today is it used to be a melting pot where we all more or less got along while adding to the recipe and making the overall dish better. Today instead of one melting pot all these seperate groups of people are in their own pots and set to simmer or worse boil.
The biggest problem is our Gov. is trying to be the master chef and instead of removing those small pots that are bubbling over they are tending to them and what is in the big melting pot is slowly being ruined.
The trouble wiith this country today is it used to be a melting pot where we all more or less got along while adding to the recipe and making the overall dish better. Today instead of one melting pot all these seperate groups of people are in their own pots and set to simmer or worse boil.
The biggest problem is our Gov. is trying to be the master chef and instead of removing those small pots that are bubbling over they are tending to them and what is in the big melting pot is slowly being ruined.
Or another term for it is a salad bowl rather than a melting pot.
What 'smelting pot'? That old idiom died when everyone became special and no one actually was special.
One must never rock the boat in this modern American society or they will be found out to not be reading "the same page" as everyone else and so ostracized. Who wants all that toil put into making a perfect Facebook page wiped out by being difficult and disagreeing about something one doesn't have the power to affect anyway?
Gallop with the herd and know that the only important peace there is is found in belonging to a majority group wholly uninterested in anything other getting along and being morally right as they toss mud and feces at their enemy.
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