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Yeah, guns are just a tool;they are a tool that makes it pretty easy for anybody to kill anyone. I am not anti-gun really. I grew up around guns, did my time in the infantry, have owned a number of all types. I have used one to dissuade an knife wielding drug dealer that did not like me walking around the corner where he was doing a deal.(like I really cared)
If I still lived in the US I would probably own one or two.
Still this whole "Guns don´t kill people..." well no, they do, guns are tools for killing. Going on a mass killing rampage with a gun is a whole lot easier than with any other weapon. More guns is not the answer, everybody walking around armed is not the answer. The whole if guns are outlawed.... is also flawed, of course outlaws will be able to get guns yet a lot of shootings are not by "outlaws" but people who are at least outwardly goodupstanding citizens. Most of the shooting incidents which have made the news were not perpetrated by criminals and likely if guns were illegal these are not the people who would even know where to get one on the black market.
Gun ownership ok but get reasonable, the fanaticsare not helping the cause. Personally I am glad to live where not everyone is armed and feel no need to be armed myself
I am so sick "Guns kill people".
Normal gun owners do not commit mass shooting.
Why we cannot relook at mental illness and how we treat it?
1. Mental illness is a vague and undefined culprit (is it just depression, if so how severe. What if it's just bullying that caused the depression?), where guns are very concrete
2. To treat mental illness for a majority of Americans would be extremely expensive (no judgement on whether it's worth it, just pointing out the cost).
3. Banning guns is easier logistically and financially (maybe even politically) than treating mental illness.
4. Most of the school shootings were from legally obtained guns (kids maybe stole the guns from their parents, but their parents legally purchased the gun).
5. Also, the majority of people have no clue on how to obtain an illegal gun and thus would go without.
I am so sick "Guns kill people".
Normal gun owners do not commit mass shooting.
Why we cannot relook at mental illness and how we treat it?
FIRST:
Moderator cut: Off topicchanged the mental health laws to release ALL mentally ill people to their local communities unsupervised without the PROMISED support (as usual) way back under JFK.
This is why schizophrenics have the "right" to refuse treatment. Makes lots of sense.
Now they have a mess with no solution just like everything else they do.
Because the blame would have to be placed on the FAMILIES, "mental health professionals" and government employees who ALL KNOW THAT THE PERSON IS MENTALLY ILL and do nothing about it.
It is NOT difficult to get an involuntary commitment and then FOLLOW UP. They just pretend it is.
Then we have the ENORMOUS issue of funding and incompetence IE the VA SYSTEM.
There will NEVER BE ENOUGH MONEY to make Progressives happy and realize their Utopian ideology.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 07-07-2014 at 01:13 PM..
Reason: Unless a thread is specifically about politics liberalism/conservatism of off topic
Guns serve no functional purpose in the preponderance of US society.
Mental 'illness' ebbs and flows, and is an elusive disease to correctly diagnose across a broad spectrum of people. Is the guy who shoots his neighbor because of where the neighbors car was parked 'mentally ill', or "temporally insane"?
We all have 'bad' days, and without the gun involved in the equation, the likelihood of our "bad day" ending in death is greatly diminished.
I have noted several recent situations where there have been stabbings or other "physical" violence in my part of the country because someone was having a "bad day". Sure, there was injury, but because there was no gun involved, there was no death. Of course, it doesn't always work out that way, but you get the point.
You can control gun availability in a measured way; it is a LOT more difficult to control mental illness, or the occasional "bad day".
Guns serve no functional purpose in the preponderance of US society.
Mental 'illness' ebbs and flows, and is an elusive disease to correctly diagnose across a broad spectrum of people. Is the guy who shoots his neighbor because of where the neighbors car was parked 'mentally ill', or "temporally insane"?
We all have 'bad' days, and without the gun involved in the equation, the likelihood of our "bad day" ending in death is greatly diminished.
I have noted several recent situations where there have been stabbings or other "physical" violence in my part of the country because someone was having a "bad day". Sure, there was injury, but because there was no gun involved, there was no death. Of course, it doesn't always work out that way, but you get the point.
You can control gun availability in a measured way; it is a LOT more difficult to control mental illness, or the occasional "bad day".
Preponderance???
You are making a very popular but easily and oft defeated argument.
With the number of guns in this country nearly equaling the number of people, you position just doesn't hold water...after removing suicides and gang members the number of gun deaths is around 2-3k yearly...out of a nation of 300 MILLION....YOU do the math!
Now take out the number of deaths by cop or justifiable by people defending themselves and you have a number per capita that is infinitesimal.
But it's a great emotional argument and I'm sure despite your new found knowledge, will continue saying it because your true objective is to get rid of guns and not deaths....because if you REALLY wanted to save lives there are far better places to start!
To me having a gun or guns makes killing on impulse far to easy.... in a temper a lot of people lash out,but given a gun its too easy to blast away from a distance either for protection or losing it, its too easy to take a life in a brief second of having this weapon in your possession...It seems far too easy to get a gun in the US... are there any checks done on people with previous convictions or mental illness I wonder..
To me having a gun or guns makes killing on impulse far to easy.... in a temper a lot of people lash out,but given a gun its too easy to blast away from a distance either for protection or losing it, its too easy to take a life in a brief second of having this weapon in your possession...It seems far too easy to get a gun in the US... are there any checks done on people with previous convictions or mental illness I wonder..
This is so true. So many people in the world resort to violence whenever they get mad. Few seem to know how to solve their problems. Even in casual conversation their response is "I'll kick his Moderator cut: language ", "I'll kill her" blah blah blah. Everyone talks up violence, even if most would never do it, many will. I'm pro gun and have no idea how to address the issue, but it sure is true.
I am so sick "Guns kill people".
Normal gun owners do not commit mass shooting.
Why we cannot relook at mental illness and how we treat it?
Because it's far more difficult to catch or predict a mental illness break down before it happens, than it is to make guns more difficult to purchase.
I'm sure this next bit will **** off a lot of gun nuts... Too bad. Keep in mind this is coming from a 5 gun owner, and a TX one at that.
We really do need to make gun laws more stringent. There are so many loopholes in the current laws that the current laws simply do no good. If I want to go buy a new gun, I can go down to my local store, purchase it, wait for the results of the background check, and pick up my gun later that day or the next day or so.
If I want to buy a used gun, all I have to do is find someone willing to sell it to me. No background check, no wait period, nothing. I am on a few different internet forums, and some of them have a classifieds section where selling guns is allowed. So any random internet person on this forum could buy a gun from another random person.
Gun nuts foam at the mouth with anything that could possibly restrict their right to buy a gun. Well, the fact of the matter is, if they are law abiding citizens, they will have no problem buying a gun through the legal channels. More laws are needed to weed out the people who SHOULD NOT HAVE GUNS! It's too easy for them to get them, and if I have to be inconvenienced a bit more that I can no longer buy a gun from an individual or something, I am ok with that, if it means that somewhere, some psycho can't get his hands on one that way either.
Guns are blamed because the powers that be do not want you to have them.
If guns kill people do pencils misspell words?
There are a few mental people who go on killing sprees but the bigger issue is the revolving door justice system and criminal gang members in and out of prison. Felons can not legally own guns but get them anyway. Instead of restricting the rights of law abiding citizens why can't criminals serve longer sentences?
How come hunters and combat soldiers do not use knives and screw drivers exclusively, instead of guns?????????
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