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Two quotations come to mind. The first came, I think, from Sarte stated something to the effect that "a man who is not a liberal in his twenties has no heart but a man who is not a conservative in his thirties is a fool."
Most often this phrase is attributed to Winston Churchill, but it seems the phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."
Looses something in the literal translation from French, doesn't it?
As for the original question, I don't really have an answer. I do think the antagonism between left and right is greater than it was in the past.
Perhaps it's driven by the sorting phenomena, but I'm not sure about that. I suspect the sorting may be more of a result than a cause. (Personally, we are weary of being around too many of the proselytizing "true believers" who we don't agree with, so we'll happily move to a place where we can be among those that are more like us when I retire in a short while.)
Perhaps it's the result of an overall decline in civility and formality across all our relationships. There was a time not too long ago when it was not considered polite to talk of politics in a social setting.
Perhaps people sense that our once-great country is slipping away from us leading to a sense of desperation. Both sides believe that their answer is the only solution.
Sadly, I think neither the traditional Republican or Democrat positions are the answer to our woes.
I miss the professionalism! There have always been bad actors in politics, I know. But at least they were appropriately dressed, relatively intelligent and spoke with civility.
The out-of-control spending terrifies me.
It's pick and choose for me here trying to figure out which ones will act in the best interests of the County, State and Country and which ones are the most mentally healthy. I feel like a person without a party.
A very good book was written a few years ago about why the country is polarized. It's called "The Big Sort: Why The Clustering of Like Minded America Is Tearing Us Apart" by Bill Bishop. Here are 2 sources of information about the book:
"America may be more diverse than ever coast to coast, but the places where we live are becoming increasingly crowded with people who live, think, and vote like we do. This social transformation didn't happen by accident. We've built a country where we can all choose the neighborhood and church and news show — most compatible with our lifestyle and beliefs. And we are living with the consequences of this way-of-life segregation. Our country has become so polarized, so ideologically inbred, that people don't know and can't understand those who live just a few miles away."
"Bishop investigates "the Big Sort," tracking patterns of migration that reveal that Americans have, over the past three decades, been increasingly sorting themselves into communities where people share the same lifestyle...As geography becomes the most significant predictor of political orientation and liberals and conservatives become concentrated in separate communities, cross-party interaction is whittled down to a minimum, minimizing opportunities for civil discussion that might help to foster political tolerance. The Big Sort is, according to Bishop's findings, responsible for political imbalances that grow more and more pronounced each year. The end result of this mass movement are "balkanized communities whose inhabitants find other Americans to be culturally incomprehensible; a growing intolerance for political differences that has made national consensus impossible; and politics so polarized that Congress is stymied and elections are no longer just contests over politics, but bitter choices between ways of life.""
I highly recommend the book if you are interested in this topic. I recommended it to my nonfiction book discussion group and they all liked it. I'm conservative and they're all liberal. You'll see Bill Clinton has been known to talk about the book.
It sounds fascinating.
On one hand, the beauty of America is that we DO have 50 states, and in those states, countless communities, all with some degree of self-governance (although as the Federal government grows, one could argue that self-governance is diminishing). It's natural, albeit probably somewhat detrimental, that we seem to be moving to places where people are most like us ideologically.
And we can point to Newt Gingrich--who, unlike Alinsky and Ayers actually held national public office and exerted direct policital pressure on his colleagues--and say the same thing.
Up until Gingrich, Democrats and Republicans played their political games while in public, then met at parties and golfing to hammer out compromises to keep the government running.
Gingrich as leader of Republicans in the House, for the first time forbade Republicans from meeting socially with Democrats. The politicians no longer got to know each other as human beings in the social settings human beings normally get to know each other. Their ony contact was on the House floor where Gingrich could control the rhetoric.
At the same time, the Moral Majority rose as a political factor in the Republican party, and because it is a religious movement, it defined politics in absolute terms of good and evil...and there can be no compromise or even discussion with evil, evil must be destroyed. The Religious Right makes politics impossible.
I'm conservativeish as I say. My social views are a bit more fuzzy, but I'm definitely conservative in fiscal matters, mostly on foreign policy matters - a bit more isolationist than most but nothing like Ron Paul in that regard, either, between those extremes. On social issues...I'm pretty moderate. Strongly pro-gun rights, more pro-life than pro-choice, but not particularly married to either side of the abortion issue. I support gay marriage. Something of a libertarian/conservative hybrid.
I dislike the Religious Right in many ways, but have studied voting patterns enough to know that, at least in the last 25 years, the GOP couldn't have won most elections without them, so I understand why they're held in such high regard. Even those supposed "gains" the GOP might get by abandoning them wouldn't make up for what they would lose.
Traveling is a good way to open a child's eyes---as adults we learn events just don't happen overnight and come with 5 minute solutions.
What disturbs me both parties cannot find middle ground. It's truly sad.
I don't hate white three piece republicans nor white three piece democrats-I DO hate how public servants don't understand the word SERVANT.
I hope Americans can learn people are more important than politics.
Good words.
The problem with "middle ground" is this. When they do manage to do it, it usually just Moderator cut: . both sides off. They can't even compromise without screwing it up.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 07-18-2014 at 04:46 PM..
Reason: If a word has to gave *'s placed in it to publish just don't use it.
I am pretty hard-core Conservative, but have never been a fan of Newt Gingrich.
I just will never get over that story about him divorcing a spouse who had cancer.
Gingrich is a great "ideas" man - he does have some good ideas. He just isn't the right guy to implement them, nor is he the guy that I want as the face of the Republican Party.
Polarization in America is caused by the modern religious right conservative movement. The "good" vs. "evil" stance has come to fruition ever since Reagan. The more it is perpetuated, the more polarized the country becomes.
From the right-wing, "evil" is generally portrayed as the following:
-poor: lazy, non-working, "welfare" queens
-Muslims in the Middle East (unfortunately)
-anyone who criticizes the 1%**********
****the 1% hold the Republican party because they are put on a pedestal. Under conservatism, wealth is success, power, and something to be emulated. The 1% are like gods in that they do no wrong. Therefore, conservatism believes all should aspire to be the 1%. That belief system keeps conservative constiuents locked in to any potential faults in the party or ideology
The polarization comes from resistance to compromise. By framing things in "good" vs. "evil", compromise is unacceptable. What religion / school of thought could actually advocate compromising with evil?
Divide in conquer, good vs. evil, is at the heart of conservative politics. This isn't an American-only phenomenon. It has the most destructive affect in America because we only have two major parties, where as other countries (UK, Canada) have multiple parties.
1. Many of the "1%" are Democrats. Why shouldn't we all aspire to be successful, by the way?
2. There is actually a very good reason we have a two party system. It's because we have a single winner in most races. If, say, 5 major parties existed, each Congressman who serves would have only won the votes of maybe 30% or so of the people, because the others would be split. Those cases do happen, but that's why we always shift back to 2 major parties over time.
3. Tell me something. Why are liberals so fast to criticize Christians, but will bend over to lick the boots of any Muslim who walks by them?
Most people I know, whether they fall on the Left or Right end of the political spectrum, seem pretty normal, but from what I gather reading the Politics and Controversies sub-forum here on City-Data, the basic Left and Right divide in America is perceived like this:
-Liberals consider conservatives to be ignorant, selfish, racist rednecks.
-Conservatives consider Liberals to be actively evil supplicants before Satan participating in a biblical war against Jesus and all goodness in an effort to destroy America by wielding the sword of radical Islam, and allowing people to dare to speak Spanish in public. Also legal marijuana and letting gays get up to whatever it is they get up to. But basically just Satan's willing army of evil.
Personally, I think Liberals are deluded and myopic, and Conservtives are whiny blowhards.
I just think liberals fail to understand economics.
There is no "left" in this country anymore. There is Conservative, and Conservative Lite. Both or beholden to corporate interests. With the gamut wheel of American politics shifting right, the republicans have become americas version of radical islam. The Obama/Dems are Ford/Reaganesque type conservatives. There is absolutely no connection to the old school McGovern, Humphrey, Bobbie Kennedy dems of the 60's. A true "leftie" would be Bernie Sanders, but that type of pol is such a minority, they don't warrant inclusion in any of the larger political ideologies or party's. I long for the day a large and accessible left leaning party is available to mainstream america
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The Right and Left In America
