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If I pack my things and move to Canada, I would be a Black Canadian.
While similar, the Canadian experience is different than the American experience. I think it would be more accurate to say that you're an American expat in Canada, if you pack your things and move.
You could, however, move to Russia and become a cocktail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
When a white man commits a crime, it isn't a "white community" problem. Why can't it work the same way with Blacks?
It could very well be a "white community" problem, if that community is populated by ignorant bigots -- plenty of race-related violence still extant in America, after all. It's certainly getting better compared to my youth -- leaps and bounds better. Racists at least know to keep their racist thoughts to themselves. Successive generations are less and less likely to give a damn about something so mundane as skin color. And bi-racial relationships are common. (I was alive when "mixed" marriages were absolutely illegal, and bigots hooted and jeered about "mongrelization [sic] of the white race.")
Compared to the 1960s, I'd say we're halfway there. We'll likely live to see the day when skin color is as important as eye color.
Why? Because we're still separated from America. Part of that is our own fault. I admit, I'd say "I'm black" before I'd say "I'm American".
Converse, I don't describe myself by my skin color because it is only a very small aspect of my physical appearance and does not describe the essence of who and what I am.
As individuals, we are all multifaceted, complex, and consist of much, much more than our skin color.
In my humble opinion, it is very sad and dismissive to describe or define oneself as simply "black",
at least saying, "I'm American" is more descriptive and encompassing.
It doesn't take long to find a thread in politics or current events or somewhere else on this forum for someone to ask a question like "Why does the black community do XYZ?" or "what is wrong with the black community in relationship to XYZ?"
This implies all black people are the same (behave the same way), and all black people should atone and repent for the behaviors of other black people.
Why don't we hold other groups to the same standard? What is with this obsession with defining the "black community," that is monolithic community with a single set of experiences, behaviors, values and actions? Why doesn't American individualism apply to black people?
*I posted this here hoping we can have a civilized scours on this without devolving to stereotyping and the like!
I think some of this is because some public figures try to speak for the black community. They act as if they understand all the issues of black people because they have the same color skin. Jesse Jackson is an obvious example.
This image is reinforced by a "group think" culture - blacks that have a conservative streak are openly criticized and called names. I think some black people do not want to hear criticism from a black person so that opinion is suppressed.
However, many (if not most) of us, for a myriad of reasons, still subscribe to the idea of "needing to be around other blacks" simply because they're black and the assumption that they will automatically have the same social, political, economic, and religious views, thus forming "black" communities and leading to the accompanying queries, "Why does the black community do XYZ?" or "what is wrong with the black community in relationship to XYZ?".
Personally, I reject the whole notion of "needing to be around other blacks". I realized at a very young age that I needed to be around people who share my values (if not my views) regardless of their race, ethnicity, religion, sex, social status, age, sexual orientation, or any other demographic and that what I pursued and what influenced my decisions concerning my choices in regards to where I attended school, what I do for a career, where I live, who I dated and married, and who I socialize with.
Personally (probably because I grew up in white suburbia) I didn't have an assumption that being around other people meant they would be like me. There were no black people when I was a kid. I was the one of 3 black kids in my class, and the other 2 were biracial so they were "different."
When I got older my perspective became more nuanced. I never had problems connecting with people from other ethnic groups. I also always thought that for people of color in the US we have more in common than not. But I realized, the best way for me not to be stereotyped, was when there was a wide variety of types of black people around. And I like to be in environments where there are black preps, black yuppies, black hipsters, black mechanics and everything else! Because then, it is a lot easier to see that we are all different.
So I started looking for black people a little more. And as before, I connect with the people who share my interests and values: no matter what their ethnic background is. My friends reflect this. We are all pretty similar, even though we represent a mix of backgrounds.
For the record, I'm black, and I've been thinking a lot about this.
Part of it is the natural outgrowth of being a smaller, more ethnically unified group than white people or Hispanics. As opposed to all the people of British, Irish, German, Italian, French, etc. heritage who were collectively labeled "white" in order to distinguish them from other immigrants when the US began to diversify (as a side note, the idea of a unified "white race" is only about 500 years old. And in the past, certain smaller white immigrant groups were saddled with the same stereotypes we are today, especially the Irish and Italians), most black people from the Americas are descended from a relatively small area of Western Africa. We're also 13% of the population as opposed to the majority, or the largest minority.
Does that make it right? Of course not. But it still makes it easier to lump us all together in people's minds. Especially since, sadly, most of us (except for immigrants) don't know our heritage. White people will often tell you they're half German, a quarter Irish, etc. Hispanics and Asians usually identify with their country of origin. Black people are "just black."
This is where the idea of the "black community" comes from. That and the fact that throughout most of the US's history, we really were separate from the other races and had to stick together because most others didn't want to deal with us. It also explains why we've had so many "leaders" in the way most other races haven't. There's been more need, and more willingness to listen to them.
As a side note, I always thought Sharpton was seen as kind of a clown in the black community, especially among intellectuals, for always chasing controversy, straightening his hair, and artificially playing up his "old-school preacher" image. That's definitely how we saw him in my family. Personally, I think the mainstream media just loves him because he's such "a character," like Sarah Palin or Ann Coulter, which makes him look more important than he is.
As for why we're expected to be responsible for others' actions? That's because there's the lingering notion that "other races have been through hardships and discrimination but managed to overcome it through hard work. Why haven't you?" Of course, a lot of black people have done that, it's just that on the whole, we still have much higher rates of crime and social dysfunction than most other groups.
But most of that boils down to education and opportunity. Black people were denied it for centuries, which eventually bred a mentality that we didn't need it, as well as the "fu*k the system" attitude that led to so much of the anti-white racism, violent crime, acting out in public, etc. we're still seeing today. Things have been improving for the last few decades, but it's going to take longer than that to fix things.
Last edited by That Guy You Met Once; 07-31-2014 at 05:55 PM..
It doesn't take long to find a thread in politics or current events or somewhere else on this forum for someone to ask a question like "Why does the black community do XYZ?" or "what is wrong with the black community in relationship to XYZ?"
This implies all black people are the same (behave the same way), and all black people should atone and repent for the behaviors of other black people.
Why don't we hold other groups to the same standard? What is with this obsession with defining the "black community," that is monolithic community with a single set of experiences, behaviors, values and actions? Why doesn't American individualism apply to black people?
*I posted this here hoping we can have a civilized scours on this without devolving to stereotyping and the like!
Answer: It's ignorance.
Solution: Each of us should work to be responsible/accountable for our own actions and how we impact others around us. We should hold everyone to this standard without vilifying entire groups unless there's some sort of validity or purpose (such as vilifying the Corporation Philip-Morris and it's employees for continuing to expand the market to sell super addictive cancer-sticks worldwide to new generations of humans for no other purpose than to turn profit.).
We obviously are born with particular genetics, parents, and in a particular place and time not of our choosing. Vilifying people for something they have or had no choice is just hurtful and wrong.
It doesn't take long to find a thread in politics or current events or somewhere else on this forum for someone to ask a question like "Why does the black community do XYZ?" or "what is wrong with the black community in relationship to XYZ?"
This implies all black people are the same (behave the same way), and all black people should atone and repent for the behaviors of other black people.
Why don't we hold other groups to the same standard? What is with this obsession with defining the "black community," that is monolithic community with a single set of experiences, behaviors, values and actions? Why doesn't American individualism apply to black people?
*I posted this here hoping we can have a civilized scours on this without devolving to stereotyping and the like!
I believe African-American culture exclusively is responsible for the poor image black people across the world have. So in a sense, I do believe African-Americans in particular have to take responsibility for that. I know Caribbean and African Canadians who want nothing to do with an association to African-American culture. But sadly, because the world looks at America first, for first impressions, that's what people see.
Also, African-Americans love finger pointing. They're not a very introspective people. They need someone to blame instead of bettering themselves. They define Einstein's definition of insanity to a tee.
I guess just like all whites are suppose to atone for slavery when their ancestors probably hadn't even immigrated to the US before the late 1800s, well after slavery.
Blacks shouldn't have to be responsible for other members of their race. But Black leaders in this country need to speak out more about the deficiencies among many of their race....high crime, lack of fathers being involved with their children, mothers who have children from a variety of fathers, etc.
The problem with that, again, on the part of African-Americans generalizing, is that ALL whites are supposed to be apologetic. The young Hungarian immigrant that arrived in the US two weeks ago should be as apologetic as your typical southern cracker. I don't disagree that certain people should, not necessarily feel apologetic, but certainly be aware of their ancestors dark past, in the case of southern whites. Truth is, you will find very few southern white people that don't have at least one ancestor connected in some way to the slave business. Be it an owner, a trader, and auctioneer, a transporter, etc. That is a very significant part of the south's heritage, like it or not. It is something they should be very aware about. Not unlike modern Germans.
If the south was civilized and progressive enough, mature enough, the same setup that exists in Germany today, where Germany is one of Israel's biggest allies would in some way be the case for blacks in the south. You'd have southern whites that would be the African-American community's biggest patrons. Instead, you have the opposite. You still have many crackers living in the antebellum days.
Because in their (the people saying all blacks are responsible) minds, blacks are one collective group sharing 1 brain.
While whites are special little snowflakes with so many varying opinions.
Apparently those same people aren't to blame for little Jimmy shooting up a public place (no, the trophy society they've created cannot be blamed), but black people and black culture are responsible for every bad in the world.
Notice how Justin Bieber is never described as a thug? But Drake is described as a thug. Miley Cyrus is liberating while Rihanna is every derogatory term in the book. Chris Brown is the founder of domestic violence while Sean Penn is this talented shooting star in the sky.
Last edited by coffeendonuts; 07-31-2014 at 05:40 PM..
They need someone to blame instead of bettering themselves. They define Einstein's definition of insanity to a tee.
Einstein never said that. And "they need someone to blame" is generalization of the highest order. People of all stripes blame others for their failure rather take a deep look inward. It's a common human trait. One of our bad traits, for sure -- along with bigotry and prejudice.
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