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I watched a terrific movie last night "42" it was the story of Jackie Robinson and his life playing baseball for the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1947. He was the first black ball player in the majors and he took a ton of racist crap to achieve what he did.
In 1947 America was really divided and it seems to be taking a step backwards today with a line of division and a US against THEM attitude.
In the movie the Dodgers headed south to play baseball and were faced with extreme racism. I thought "south" from Brooklyn might be Georgia but it was Philly ! The hotel were the team had stayed many times before refused to emit them due to Jackie. There were seperate bathrooms, drinking fountains, seats in the stands at the ball park, everything was seperate and racism was everywhere including Jackie and his wife being barred from getting on an airplane, to a sherriff coming out on the field to stop the game and threaten to arrest Jackie if he played.
Jackie was a hero to many and he really made strides to overcome peoples ignorant ideas. It is sad to see today that we seem to be taking a step backwards.
In the movie one of the characters summed it up by saying something like "it's not the colour of your skin but it's what you bring" for Jackie it was baseball skill and a positive attitude.
I think we could learn something from "42" about tolerance, fitting in and getting on.
"it's not the colour of your skin but it's what you bring"
The thing many of us forget about the Jackie Robinsons and Rosa Parks is that in many ways they were chosen and groomed for very specific purposes. Their personal lives and demeanor left no room for tearing them down in any area side form race. Today so much of our strife is justified by many since the victims on all ends are easily vilified.
At I think much of the current tension is as class based as it is race based.
Add to that how few people are willing to 'break ranks' & call out members of their own groups/persuasion and we are face becoming both a cesspool and easy pickings for opportunists. I can't help but think Al Sharpton and Fox News are the greatest beneficiaries of the current drama.
We have to ask ourselves this question about the divide in races.
What benefits do Black people get by the racial divide being the way it is and what benefits would they get if the races somehow "came together" and lived in harmony?
If you're a lazy black person and don't want to work hard, than you kinda don't want things to change, you have the built in excuse that "the man" is keeping you down. If you DO work hard and want to make something of yourself, change would obviously be what you want.
As far as i'm concerned, as long as there are people like Sharpton "speaking" for the black race (whether they want him to or not) there will always be divide and the reason is that anger isn't going to create harmony. If you yell and scream and blame this and blame that and get in people's faces, that's not really the best way to accomplish what you say you want to accomplish.
Sharpton went nuts over the Treyvon situation, but when blacks killed Shorty Belton (a veteran) and an innocent baseball player named Christopher Lane in a "thrill killing" there was no Sharpton to be found, he wasn't front and center being critical of the blacks who committed the crimes, he was hiding in the bushes waiting for the next Mike Brown situation to rear its head.
Belton and Lane were complete innocents minding their own business.......Treyvon Martin and Mike Brown were not nearly as innocent and at least partly contributed to their own situations yet, there's Sharpton screaming for "justice" and dividing the races even more.
I believe if black people want equal treatment, they need to get their own house in order, they need to NOT be the race that commits the most violent crimes, they need to be the race that's known for advancing themselves thru education, even if its self education, they need to be the race known for wearing their pants the right way, around the waist, they need to be known for their major rap stars to NOT use the N word in songs to profit and they need to be the hardest working race, not the race that people say "those people dont want to work hard"
So, to sum it up, the suggestions are as follows. 1) Work harder 2) stop breaking the law 3) read more books 4) Stay off the streets at 1am 5 ) pull up your pants 6) Don't cry racism when none has really happened.
If you accomplish all 6 of these things, than we can reopen this debate and your whining and complaining will have some merit, people will be much more apt to listen to you if you are really being persecuted for the color of your skin and not because of the 6 reasons i listed above.
Very good posts above.
I do think that in many ways blacks are getting in their own way when it comes to race relations. What have the riots and looting done to the perception of blacks beside perpetuating the racial stereotypes? Many blacks do have a real problem with the Police while many whites see the problem being, if you break the law you will get in trouble with the law. In black society it seems that many are content where they are and happy to just get by while blaming "the man" for keeping them down. If a black person conforms to normal society they are seen as a sell out or an Uncle Tom.
I really thought things would change when Obama was elected but they have only gotten worse.
In "42" it was portrayed that Jackie had a problem with racism and was court martialed during WW2 when he refused to move to the back of an army bus among other trouble when he challenged and fought against the status que.
The Dodgers owner hand picked Jackie for his baseball skills but told him that he would have to be tough to face the hate that would rain down on him for daring to play in a white mans league.
In the movie even some of Jackies team mates didn't want him there and threatened to walk out but they all came around in the end.
Black people have come a long way since the 1800's but I think they still have a bit more work to do to move forward. It starts with the individual being upstanding and being an ambassador for his race which will change the publics opinion just like how Jackie did it.
.......Treyvon Martin and Mike Brown were not nearly as innocent and at least partly contributed to their own situations
Quote:
What have the riots and looting done to the perception of blacks beside perpetuating the racial stereotypes?
I don't think Martin and Brown are at all comparable. Martin may not have been heading into the priesthood but he had a legal right to walk down the street, eat a pack of Skittles and return the home he was invited to without someone deciding he was up to no good & tailing him after a 911 operator told the other person to cease. Brown was probably a victim of excessive force but definitely instigated or escalated the situation regardless of Wilson's response.
And I cringed when I saw the Ferguson DA giving his statement on the non-indictment because it was so horribly timed, so adversarial and so obviously going to bait people. I could just feel what was coming- but the truth is the number of blacks who did truly riot and loot is statistically insignificant. Unfortunately it is also a memorable visual that we all recall easily. Lost in that was the number of people who tried to defray the violence or do something meaningful instead. The line of protesters protecting the local diner come to mind. As do others who started funding campaigns for looted businesses. This is where I really hope to see a new generation of black- or better yet community leaders across racial lines- step in and lead. If you look at the 60s the biggest impact was had by well organized and peaceful protest. As in X number of people starting and ending at given points where the numbers can be counted as a political statement and typically culminating in either speeches or some type of meaningful music. Granted- Fox and CNN won't cut regular programming and dispatch vans, helicopters and reporters to a group of well spoken people in church clothes. Not a freak show and no ratings benefit.
I don't think Martin and Brown are at all comparable. Martin may not have been heading into the priesthood but he had a legal right to walk down the street, eat a pack of Skittles and return the home he was invited to without someone deciding he was up to no good & tailing him after a 911 operator told the other person to cease. Brown was probably a victim of excessive force but definitely instigated or escalated the situation regardless of Wilson's response.
And I cringed when I saw the Ferguson DA giving his statement on the non-indictment because it was so horribly timed, so adversarial and so obviously going to bait people. I could just feel what was coming- but the truth is the number of blacks who did truly riot and loot is statistically insignificant. Unfortunately it is also a memorable visual that we all recall easily. Lost in that was the number of people who tried to defray the violence or do something meaningful instead. The line of protesters protecting the local diner come to mind. As do others who started funding campaigns for looted businesses. This is where I really hope to see a new generation of black- or better yet community leaders across racial lines- step in and lead. If you look at the 60s the biggest impact was had by well organized and peaceful protest. As in X number of people starting and ending at given points where the numbers can be counted as a political statement and typically culminating in either speeches or some type of meaningful music. Granted- Fox and CNN won't cut regular programming and dispatch vans, helicopters and reporters to a group of well spoken people in church clothes. Not a freak show and no ratings benefit.
True, there's no doubt that Brown was a much worse offender than Martin, my point was that Martin was not killed as an innocent bystander, he only got himself killed when he got into an altercation, there's still some grey area in the Martin-Zimmerman situation even if Martin was only guilty of just looking "Shady". You (he) needed to be more self aware that a tall, young black man with a hood covering his head and face at a late hour was going to look SOMEWHAT suspicious, even if it was only a very small amount.
While Brown is WAY worst than Martin, Martin wasn't as innocent as lane, who was just jogging minding his own business.
Very good posts above.
I do think that in many ways blacks are getting in their own way when it comes to race relations. What have the riots and looting done to the perception of blacks beside perpetuating the racial stereotypes? Many blacks do have a real problem with the Police while many whites see the problem being, if you break the law you will get in trouble with the law. In black society it seems that many are content where they are and happy to just get by while blaming "the man" for keeping them down. If a black person conforms to normal society they are seen as a sell out or an Uncle Tom.
I really thought things would change when Obama was elected but they have only gotten worse.
In "42" it was portrayed that Jackie had a problem with racism and was court martialed during WW2 when he refused to move to the back of an army bus among other trouble when he challenged and fought against the status que.
The Dodgers owner hand picked Jackie for his baseball skills but told him that he would have to be tough to face the hate that would rain down on him for daring to play in a white mans league.
In the movie even some of Jackies team mates didn't want him there and threatened to walk out but they all came around in the end.
Black people have come a long way since the 1800's but I think they still have a bit more work to do to move forward. It starts with the individual being upstanding and being an ambassador for his race which will change the publics opinion just like how Jackie did it.
the "sell out" and "uncle tom" comments are really important to think about, for some reason, black society has "branded" themselves as NOT wanting to be like white society.
Does not breaking the law mean you're an uncle Tom? This is a big problem and the "Street cred" amongst young blacks is something that's hurting much more than helping.
the "sell out" and "uncle tom" comments are really important to think about, for some reason, black society has "branded" themselves as NOT wanting to be like white society.
Does not breaking the law mean you're an uncle Tom? This is a big problem and the "Street cred" amongst young blacks is something that's hurting much more than helping.
Good post.
It wasn't that long ago that someone (Rodney King) uttered the famous words "Can't we all just get along" It would be a better world if we could all get along but with religion tearing us apart, think Christians and Muslims and society with black VS whites it could be a long time before that happens.
I think the "street cred" has something to do with another thread I started having to do with RAP music. I believe the RAP which mostly deals with violence and glorifies the Gangsta life style is a real problem. Throw drugs and drug dealing into that gangsta lifestyle and suddenly you can make a wad of cash in a few hours VS working 8 at a normal job. Of course dealing drugs can get you arrested or killed but in the hood it appears to be a cool acceptable career.
Black people want the same rights and opportunities as whites and they should be able to get them but access comes with a bit of conformity. Conformity includes pulling up your pants and removing the hoodie and replacing it with a tie. Yes your friends might consider you a sell out but that is what you need to do in most cases in todays American society. Not everyone can be a sports star or a rapper.
It wasn't that long ago that someone (Rodney King) uttered the famous words "Can't we all just get along" It would be a better world if we could all get along but with religion tearing us apart, think Christians and Muslims and society with black VS whites it could be a long time before that happens.
I think the "street cred" has something to do with another thread I started having to do with RAP music. I believe the RAP which mostly deals with violence and glorifies the Gangsta life style is a real problem. Throw drugs and drug dealing into that gangsta lifestyle and suddenly you can make a wad of cash in a few hours VS working 8 at a normal job. Of course dealing drugs can get you arrested or killed but in the hood it appears to be a cool acceptable career.
Black people want the same rights and opportunities as whites and they should be able to get them but access comes with a bit of conformity. Conformity includes pulling up your pants and removing the hoodie and replacing it with a tie. Yes your friends might consider you a sell out but that is what you need to do in most cases in todays American society. Not everyone can be a sports star or a rapper.
Someone much wiser than me once said "Religion is a bunch of people arguing on who has the best imaginary friend".
Obviously, being white, I can only give my white perspective, but I DO see a huge step being taken backwards and a lot of it is coming from the recent "protests" and unwillingness for some blacks to face the truth. The truth is, the men who were killed would still be alive if they were not involved in illicit activities ( ie, stealing from a store and selling illegal cigarettes) and if they had simply not resisted the police. They might have been arrested, but if they had gone peacefully the police would not have been forced to use force.
We were at the peak of white/black positive relations the day we elected Barrack Obama President. Never did I think I would ever see a black man elected to that post, but I voted for him and so did a lot of other whites, like me. Think about what a huge advancement that was. But now, many of us are feeling let down that many blacks did not seize that opportunity to advance themselves and to gain the respect of others.
I think the goals that the blacks had who protested backfired on them, and instead of us saying "you are right, we need to look at how we treat blacks" many of us are saying "enough is enough." Start acting in a civilized manner and we will see you as worthy of our respect.
Don
Last edited by Oldhag1; 01-03-2015 at 04:15 PM..
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