Government Spending. Can we survive?

[Labonte18]

Originally Posted by cwa1984

We rarely ever have had a balanced budget in the US regardless of who is in charge.

In recent times, that is true.. Historically.. It is not. Up until WWII, it was basically the exception, not the rule, to run a budget deficit.

Originally Posted by Listener2307

You can state with a straight face that taxes have been "slashed"?! It is "not your debt"?
You have drunk the Kool-aid.

Clearly spending as a percentage of GDP has been rising.

Sort of true, and true. Tax receipts have been slashed. Taxes themselves.. Not so much.



Spending has ballooned.

[Listener2307]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

Sort of true, and true. Tax receipts have been slashed. Taxes themselves.. Not so much.

Spending has ballooned.

I looked up the growth in GDP. That should be the base from which all taxes are derived, right? (Speak up if that is wrong, somehow - I am not an economist)

And here it is:
2005...$13.0T
2006...$13.8T
2007...$14.4T
2008...$14.7T
2009...$14.4T
2010...$14.9T
2011...$15.5T
2012...$16.1T
2013...$16.7T

The really odd thing is how incredibly steady the GDP growth is. Take out the recession and GDP grows at about 600M per year. Give or take. And that figure represents about 4%, so no surprise there.

So if tax rates stayed the same shouldn't government spending rise at about 4% per year? Seems like it to me.
As it happens, if you go back to 2001, then government spending has increased 88%, which is about 7% per year, or twice the growth rate of the economy.

This can't continue for much longer.

I think I see what the administration is hoping. I think they hope to hold about steady at where they are and increase taxes until things balance - which will take another two years. Then, Obama can leave office saying he balanced the budget. And he will have - but at the great expense of a much larger government.

[cwa1984]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

In recent times, that is true.. Historically.. It is not. Up until WWII, it was basically the exception, not the rule, to run a budget deficit.

Actually since the great depression. Were getting close to 100 years of regular deficit spending.

[LordSquidworth]

Originally Posted by Listener2307

You can state with a straight face that taxes have been "slashed"?! It is "not your debt"?
You have drunk the Kool-aid.

Because it's not. Federal government declares bankruptcy guess what happens...

I don't owe. The municipalities don't owe it. The states don't owe it.

Not my debt.

Durka Dur.

Originally Posted by Listener2307

Clearly spending as a percentage of GDP has been rising.

Just posting a chart doesn't mean you understand it.

[Listener2307]

Originally Posted by cwa1984

Actually since the great depression. Were getting close to 100 years of regular deficit spending.

True.
Deficit spending goes along just fine until growth in GDP stops and there becomes a new, permanent cost associated with governing.
It doesn't look like GDP is going to stop growing. But we are going to have to pay out all that Social Security at some point and that will further expand the cost of governing.

So, at some point maintenance of the debt (interest) will take up such a large portion of the budget that it begins to seriously impact the amount of money that can be spent here, in the U.S.

Last year that interest was $118 Billion. That money had to be collected, but was not available for use in the country - at least most of it.
http://treasurydirect.gov/govt/repor...ir_expense.htm

[monkeywrenching]

Originally Posted by Listener2307

(These figures have been adjusted to represent 2009 dollars, so your source may not exactly agree)

$ amounts are in billions
Year.... Revenue......... Budget.......... Deficit/Surplus
1996.... $1,453.10..... $1,560.50.... $162.14 Billion Deficit
1997.... $1,579.20..... $1,601.10.... $32.45 Billion Deficit
1998.... $1,721.70..... $1,652.50.... $100.58 Billion Surplus
1999.... $1,827.50..... $1,701.80.... $178.41 Billion Surplus
2000.... $2,025.20..... $1,789.00.... $325.17 Billion Surplus
2001.... $1,991.10..... $1,862.80.... $170.19 Billion Surplus
2002.... $1,853.10..... $2,010.90.... $207.63 Billion Deficit
2003.... $1,782.30..... $2,159.90.... $458.97 Billion Deficit
2004.... $1,880.10..... $2,292.80.... $517.54 Billion Deficit
2005.... $2,153.60..... $2,472.00.... $385.54 Billion Deficit
2006.... $2,406.90..... $2,655.00.... $291.42 Billion Deficit
2007.... $2,568.00..... $2,728.70.... $183.79 Billion Deficit
2008.... $2,524.00..... $2,982.50.... $504.94 Billion Deficit
2009.... $2,105.00..... $3,517.70.... $1559.6 Billion Deficit
2010.... $2,162.70..... $3,457.10.... $1404.99 Billion Deficit
2011.... $2,303.50..... $3,603.10.... $1367.37 Billion Deficit
2012.... $2,450.20..... $3,537.10.... $1134.02 Billion Deficit
2013.... $2,775.10..... $3,454.60.... $691.06 Billion Deficit
2014.....$3,021.00......$3,504.00.....$483.00 Billion Deficit

Can we survive this? Revenue, mostly taxes, is the income for our government, and while it is at an all-time high, government spending has out-run it by miles. Since 2001, the last year of surplus, revenue has increased 51% and spending has increased 88%!

Now, the national debt is reaching towards $18 trillion. And 2015 promises to be another year of $500 Billion in over spending.

What do you make of all this?

the USA shall always have a debt. because if there is no debt, then the fedres will not exist, and the USA shall not have any dollars to hand out in physical form.

I for one, am just waiting for the entire house of cards to come falling down in bankruptcy, and we the people can start over with no central bank, no 16th Amendment and no running the country on debt.