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Old 03-09-2015, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Taos NM
5,367 posts, read 5,160,077 times
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Th US military did some research a while back on instead of using lethal explosives, like a grenade or a howitzer shell to neutralize a situation, they would just gas an area with BZ, after which the enemies or targets would be incapable of returning a threat and could be arrested, so to speak, without being killed.

The implications of this would be rather interesting. Would militaries be much more likely to use debilitating weapons, whether BZ gas or some sort of drug in the water or whatever on a wide area, and then sort through the civilians and the targets to neutralize the situation? I would estimate that non-lethal weapons would be used (if they were to be used) on a greater scale than lethal ones, but would have lower consequences.

How much of an intrusion on your rights would you believe non-lethal weapons to be if they were used with you being effected by them? Would it be effective at neutralizing situations where targets are interspersed with civilians? Do you think non-lethal weapons would be used as a more effective way of transporting or suppressing people against their will, say in the event of a riot? Do you think they will ever be used?
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Old 03-09-2015, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
5,404 posts, read 16,012,594 times
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Those who would kill us NEED to be killed....what, are we gonna arrest them? Where do we put them? Who pays for them? Are we going to put all of the Middle East in prison? Please...... If we're fighting for our lives, we must be prepared to kill...that's war, folks! We can't be putting our enemies in "time out".

When countries/peoples are willing to have their innocents killed, then what does that say about that society? War is hell...it's a saying, for a reason! War is hell. We try to resolve issues diplomatically, but when that doesn't work, and our enemies continue their heinous actions, then what are you supposed to do? Let them continue? Let them take US over?

You have to stand for your country.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Taos NM
5,367 posts, read 5,160,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb at sea View Post
Those who would kill us NEED to be killed....what, are we gonna arrest them? Where do we put them? Who pays for them? Are we going to put all of the Middle East in prison? Please...... If we're fighting for our lives, we must be prepared to kill...that's war, folks! We can't be putting our enemies in "time out".

When countries/peoples are willing to have their innocents killed, then what does that say about that society? War is hell...it's a saying, for a reason! War is hell. We try to resolve issues diplomatically, but when that doesn't work, and our enemies continue their heinous actions, then what are you supposed to do? Let them continue? Let them take US over?

You have to stand for your country.
But what if you have some insurgents mixed with a bunch of civilians, which happens to be increasingly the case. You could just gas the whole area and then go get rid of the insurgents while leaving the civilians alone.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Taos NM
5,367 posts, read 5,160,077 times
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Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
Sounds like a solution in search of a problem. They'd spend their time and money better developing better lethal weapons.
Except better lethal weapons do very little good for anything besides a major power vs major power fight. A F16 could perform just as capably as a F35 vs a group like ISIS. Since counterterrorism seems to be the focus of most 21st century conflicts, I think non-lethal weapons would actually be a better investment.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:59 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
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LTLs have a niche. Not so much as a weapon against an armed aggressor, but as a way to back off less...serious..would be, aggressors. Some creepy groper bothers your lady and she gives him a snootfull of OC, or some stupid punk is finger jabbing your chest and you plant him and press a kubaton to some nifty nerve bundle. LTLs are handy in convincing merely annoying vermin to seek life elsewhere.

Against a truly dangerous aggressor, intent on bodily harm,LTLs aren't a good idea, for the average person. If the aggressor is armed, in any way, not even a good idea.
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Old 03-16-2015, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Taos NM
5,367 posts, read 5,160,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
LTLs have a niche. Not so much as a weapon against an armed aggressor, but as a way to back off less...serious..would be, aggressors. Some creepy groper bothers your lady and she gives him a snootfull of OC, or some stupid punk is finger jabbing your chest and you plant him and press a kubaton to some nifty nerve bundle. LTLs are handy in convincing merely annoying vermin to seek life elsewhere.

Against a truly dangerous aggressor, intent on bodily harm,LTLs aren't a good idea, for the average person. If the aggressor is armed, in any way, not even a good idea.
That makes sense, on the personal level. Do many people carry non-lethal weapons though? I know a fair number conceal carry lethal ones.

I wonder if militaries will ever use non-lethals though?
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Old 03-16-2015, 11:52 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,127,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
The implications of this would be rather interesting. Would militaries be much more likely to use debilitating weapons, whether BZ gas or some sort of drug in the water or whatever on a wide area, and then sort through the civilians and the targets to neutralize the situation?
I'm certain they would use something like that if it was the appropriate alternative however they aren't going into such an area fully armed either. I doubt they would use this in a fully hostile environment. The Russians tried this during the theater siege and subsequently killed many of the hostages, that said it may have been the best alternative because the terrorists were armed with explosives. If I recall correctly it was opiate based.
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Old 03-17-2015, 09:23 AM
 
13,511 posts, read 19,307,187 times
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I don't think there's such thing as "non lethal weapons".
Stun guns were touted as non lethal weren't they?
How many people have they killed?..unless we know the medical conditions of every one out there, there can be no non lethal weapons.
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