Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not for supporters. Want to know arguments against.
My argument is simple. I could care less what they do or not but not when its forced on states against the will of the people who vote against it, then the reason its so important to override the will of the people must be asked.
So why should gay marriage be forced upon everyone? Science tells us homosexuality is not genetic (at least there is no direct and precise evidence) so right away it cannot be equated to the real civil rights movement which dealt with proven genetic traits like race and gender or traditional marriage for the same reason.
What argument could you make to justify it?
Why should homosexuality be given state recognition of marriage over all other sexual preferences?
Not for supporters. Want to know arguments against.
My argument is simple. I could care less what they do or not but not when its forced on states against the will of the people who vote against it, then the reason its so important to override the will of the people must be asked.
So why should gay marriage be forced upon everyone? Science tells us homosexuality is not genetic (at least there is no direct and precise evidence) so right away it cannot be equated to the real civil rights movement which dealt with proven genetic traits like race and gender or traditional marriage for the same reason.
What argument could you make to justify it?
Why should homosexuality be given state recognition of marriage over all other sexual preferences?
First, it's called constitutional republicanism - we elect representatives to enact laws and to appoint and confirm judges to interpret those laws, which must comply with the Constitution. Let me guess - you weren't whining when the Supremes struck down the (jurisdictionally popular) D.C. gun control law, were you? How about interracial marriage - do you want to take a stand against the high court 'forcing' that on 16 states where its ban was popular in 1967? No, I didn't think so. So I don't really believe that you believe that it is inherently wrong for a court to rule that a popular law violates the Constitution. Either that or you haven't even begun to think through the implcations of that line of thinking.
Second, in case you haven't noticed, marriage is optional. It is not forced on anyone, anywhere. Period. Your claim is like saying that home ownership or drinking beer or hang gliding is being forced on people merely because those things are legal. It's an assertion that simply does not follow.
Third, there's nothing genetic about ones national origin, or ones religion - yet we protect people from discrimination based on both of those factors. So your thesis that there must be a genetic component to any basis for barring discrimination is also, shall we say, lacking.
You're trying very hard to come up with a rational reason to oppose same sex marriage. And you're failing. That should answer your question. And, if you're honest, you'll see that it does. Of course, you won't like it. But correct answers aren't dependent on whether or not they satisfy you.
The major purpose for marriage laws were developed centuries ago. The laws were to protect the wife and children, who were usually unable to care for themselves and to establish ownership in inherited property.
The majority don't seem to feel that same sex couples have this need.
Not for supporters. Want to know arguments against.
Sorry, when you post in an Internet forum, especially "Great Debates", you're going to get people who disagree with you. Saying "I want your opinion but only if it is the same as mine", you might as well go into an echo chamber.
Quote:
My argument is simple. I could care less what they do or not but not when its forced on states against the will of the people who vote against it, then the reason its so important to override the will of the people must be asked.
No Civil Rights strides would have been made if it were up to the "will of the people". Women would never have been granted the right to vote if it had been up to the (all-male) voters. Black people would not have gotten the right to vote or most of their Civil Rights if it has been up to the White electorate. This is why the Judicial branch is as important a part of our government as the Legislative and Executive.
Quote:
So why should gay marriage be forced upon everyone? Science tells us homosexuality is not genetic (at least there is no direct and precise evidence) so right away it cannot be equated to the real civil rights movement which dealt with proven genetic traits like race and gender or traditional marriage for the same reason.
Falsehoods. Science has not proven it is not genetic, they just haven't proven that it is. However, virtually all in the medical and psychological establishment agree that sexual orientation is not chosen, that it is "set" by the time a person is very young (4 or 5), so whatever causes it, it can't be switched. Thus is might as well be genetic.
And BTW, something doesn't have to be genetic for there to be a civil rights argument for it. Religion, for example, is protected by our laws, but religion is certainly not genetic and clearly chosen. There are also laws protecting disabled people, even those who become disabled through their own actions (like in a wheelchair because of a skiing accident or even drunk driving in addition to those who did not choose their disability--there are still access laws protecting folks who use wheelchairs). Pregnancy is also generally protected by most discrimination laws, and it is most certainly a chosen condition.
Quote:
What argument could you make to justify it?
Because CIVIL marriage (not talking religious marriage, which is and will continue to be up to the particular church/synagogue/mosque to recognize or not, just as it's always been) is a contract between two people that confers some 1000 rights relating to property ownership, inheritance, access to health records, funeral arrangements, etc. There is no logical argument why these things should be denied to one couple if granted to another, and Courts agree.
Quote:
Why should homosexuality be given state recognition of marriage over all other sexual preferences?
What "other sexual preferences" are you talking about? Homosexuality is not being "given" special recognition, rather, the previous laws that stated only 1 man + 1 woman could be a civil marriage are being overturned (some places never had that spelled out to begin with).
The most important question is, exactly how is YOUR life affected if Joe and John down the street legalize their relationship of 20 years, different from how your life is affected if Joanne and John on the other street legalize their relationship of 6 months? How are YOU affected and why do YOU care?
Aren't there more pressing things you ought to be worrying about, that actually affect your life or other people's lives?
PS, I just noticed the irony of your post on another topic, complaining that a place should not discriminate against someone for having tattoos.
Hmm, last time I checked, tattoos are not genetic, but clearly a choice. You're the one saying that discrimination based on something not genetic is wrong, so which is it?
Not for supporters. Want to know arguments against.
My argument is simple. I could care less what they do or not but not when its forced on states against the will of the people who vote against it, then the reason its so important to override the will of the people must be asked.
So why should gay marriage be forced upon everyone? Science tells us homosexuality is not genetic (at least there is no direct and precise evidence) so right away it cannot be equated to the real civil rights movement which dealt with proven genetic traits like race and gender or traditional marriage for the same reason.
What argument could you make to justify it?
Why should homosexuality be given state recognition of marriage over all other sexual preferences?
But if there's a vote and majority rules, that's the winner....everything that's voted on will have people on both sides of the fence.
As far as it being "forced upon you" how exactly is it being forced on you? Im not understanding this part.
Small government
The government shouldn't tell churches who they can and can't marry.
Leave it up to churches to make that decision.
Not one single law in favor of same-sex marriage has anything to do with the religious ceremony/rite of marriage. This whole thing is about CIVIL marriage that you can get at a courthouse. Churches can already define marriage on their own terms; many Catholic churches will not marry a couple, for example, if one of them is divorced, unless they have it "annulled", even if it was a 20-year marriage with children. That's up to the church, but the church still can't keep a divorced couple from getting a CIVIL marriage. That is the issue at hand here.
I fully support the right of any church to bless or not bless whatever marriages they wish and ONLY those they wish. But religious institutions are not the law of the land (I believe that would be called "Sharia") and nobody's religion has the authority to dictate to people who don't practice that religion, and a legal contract at City Hall has nothing to do with any church.
So why should gay marriage be forced upon everyone?
How is allowing someone to do something the same as it being "forced upon everyone"? No one has ever proposed forcing people of the same gender to get married.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Feltser
Science tells us homosexuality is not genetic (at least there is no direct and precise evidence)
If you are going the science route, please provide the scientific data/ evidence that shows heterosexuality is genetic.
Many many people believe the Bible and try to live by its teachings. The Bible is clear, homosexuality is a sin.
The Constitution is also very clear. The laws of the US should not be governed by the religious beliefs of some.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
