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The hypocrisy is disappointing surely, but the stupidly required to believe that anyone is the epitome of virtue is even worse. The media has a great deal to do with hyping supposed living saints and demi-gods, but why go for the bait every time?
Appraise their ideas and works of people with a cool mind, and leave the hype at the curb.
It really boils down to having credibility. If you constantly go on writing books and making speeches about the military industrial complex and play the "evil empire card" in regards to the United States government around the world making a profit off that and then you willing go to work for the Pentagon you don't have any credibility. The same way some actors will go on about the environment and how bad it is and how the rich are exploiting everyone and how we all have to make sacrifices to save the planet. Yet they live in mansions, are part of the 1% crowd, take private jets and wear suits and dresses that cost more then most people make in a year to award shows. Basically what it comes down to is if your going to talk the talk then walk the walk. People can forgive and overlook some hypocrisy and contradiction. Yet when you have blatant hypocrisy people can't respect you or even take you seriously.
You see, this is exactly the kind of extreme that I was referring to. What does living in a mansion has to do with anything? Answer: nothing. Just because a person cares about the environment then he can't live in mansion because it's supposedly more resource intensive than a small home? Really? That's just ignorant.
Talking the talk and walking the walk is about what a person does, not what he doesn't do!! If you dig deeper you'll probably find the environmentally-concerned rich guy has solar panels in his mansion, drive an electric car, and grows his own organic food. That's walking the walk. It is not about what a person doesn't do, it's about what he does.
It's so stupid to call Pelosi a hypocrite when she actually supported pro-union legislation in the House. You don't get any more pro-union than that. If she had said she likes union but trashed pro-union bills behind the scene, that's one thing; but she didn't do that. She actually supported union through her action. She is not a hypocrite. You know what she is? She is a target. Targeted by the ignoramus.
You want a Great Debate? This is it - Why do People Put Such Obscure Constraint on People They Don't Like? Or maybe the answer is right there in the question.
I'm currently at a T in the road, having just finished reading Peter Schweizer's Do As I Say (Not As I Do)/Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy, covering such liberals as Michael Moore, Ralph Nader, Noam Chomsky, George Soros, Al Franken, Nancy Pelosi, Cornel West.
Alright! Alright! They're hypocrites! But, the question is, can you still value their works, books, accomplishments, and turn a blind eye to their blatant hypocrisies?
Huh?
First, I wouldn't call Nancy Pelosi a celebrity - or does that term encompass all politicians now? Soros? Chomsky? Nader? The word 'celebriity' is not analogous with 'famous person'.
You list of lot of politicians there. The sausage-making analogy of politics is very apt, I've always thought. I have no expectation at all of no-hypocrisy from politicians. To do so would require considerable naivete. By the way... liberal celebrities? Why? Because they're the only ones who are hypocritical? Speaking of naivete...
Show me a politician that doesn't serve up endless paens to the wonders of liberty, while also encroaching on liberty in ways that directly contradict their message. Well? You can't do it - not a politician that actually holds office, anyway. Show me a politicians that doesn't cut non-democratic American allies, such as Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, slack in ways that contradict their articulated stances on democracy, freedom of speech, and so forth. Well? Again, you can't. Now, I have no problem with that. I expect a degree of realpolitik from leaders. The world really can't function in a pure-as-the-driven-snow fashion. But it is hypocritical. Do you really think there has ever been a non-hypocritical U.S. President? Please.
Take Thomas Jefferson. Do I appreciate the majesty of the Declaration of Independence, which he wrote? Of course. But that document contasts greatly from many of the public and private ideas which the man held.
As for artistic product, why would I possibly care if they're personally hypocrites as regards what they make? What could that possibly have to do with a work of art, such as a film or a novel? Alec Baldwin. Clint Eastwood. Stephen King. Paul Theroux. Just to name of few people, who I profoundly disagree with on various issues, yet who make art that I also very much enjoy. I don't see where one necessarily has to do with the other.
Anyway, I have to be honest. I am a hypocrite. So are you. So is everyone reading this thread.
You see, this is exactly the kind of extreme that I was referring to. What does living in a mansion has to do with anything? Answer: nothing. Just because a person cares about the environment then he can't live in mansion because it's supposedly more resource intensive than a small home? Really? That's just ignorant.
Actually living in a mansion does if your going to tell people they need to make sacrifices in there daily lives for the environment. That's being extremely hypocritical. The same way flying around the world on private jets to events to talk about global warming is hypocritical as well...they really couldn't take a commercial flight like regular people do? It boils down to just being credible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bep0p
Talking the talk and walking the walk is about what a person does, not what he doesn't do!! If you dig deeper you'll probably find the environmentally-concerned rich guy has solar panels in his mansion, drive an electric car, and grows his own organic food. That's walking the walk. It is not about what a person doesn't do, it's about what he does.
The solar panels on the roof aren't impressive since most people can't afford to put solar panels on there roof and preaching that people should put solar panels on there roof is elitist due to the average person not being able to afford it due to solar panels still being very expensive. That and they won't always cover your energy needs since a lot of people don't live somewhere like Los Angeles California and don't get as much sun light year round. Driving a Tesla is something the average person again can't afford so someone preaching people driving electric cars like a Tesla is a elitist. As far as the organic garden for the rich guy to grown there own food supply goes that comes off as him being elitist again since he very very likely has servants attend to the garden and regular people can't afford servants let alone have enough space to grow enough food for themselves in there yard to survive off. Your listing things to try and prove a point that they can walk the walk but what your listing is very elitist and not something average people can identify with and doesn't help in the credibility department.
Jesus, people actually read that garbage? Not because all the supposed "facts" contained in the book isn't true but it doesn't matter. The entire book is pointless, trying to profit off of unintelligent readers.
You know what, life is more complicated than just "hypocrites this, hypocrites that." There are gay Republicans lawmakers who voted for anti-gay bills. There are professional hitmen who go to church every Sunday. There are KKK members who root for the black players of their favorite teams. The point is, life is not black and white. There is a grey area in every body. Everyone has beliefs system who doesn't jive with their action. It's actually normal.
A GREAT DEBATE is how far we should hold someone's accountable for his/her belief vs his/her action. For example, I am against smoking. I think it is bad. But I have invested in Philip Morris stocks and made money and I see absolutely no conflict in that whatsoever. In fact, I pride myself in not letting my emotion get in the way of a good investment. I also placed bets on sport teams that I hate. Does that mean I'm a hypocrite? No. I just am able to differentiate my investment from my bias.
On the flip side, how annoying to expect everyone to carry out their belief to the extreme. If someone hates Rap music, for example, then that person is supposed to walk out of the room every time a Rap song is played? I don't think so. That's stupid. Same with some of the accusation in the book, so Pelosi is supposed to hire only union workers because she likes union? That's a bit much don't you think? Michael Moore is not supposed to own Haliburton stocks because he's against the war? That makes no sense. That'd means a person can only buy stocks of companies that he/she supports. Which is just not how the real world works.
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This is a very interesting point of view. I must be an exception to the rule. I am one such individual who will not invest (purchase, do business with) any company, organization, agency whose beliefs are so far from my own that I just could not part with money. I do business, part with money and time in a conscientious fashion. There are times, that a business, group or entity may have far flung views that don't fit my own and I am not aware of it. When I do learn of a stance a business has taken that egregiously violates my own principles I remove them from the roster and find a new.
Michael Moore has been disgusting for a long time - and it begins with his intellectual dishonesty. I am shocked that anyone every worshiped him. Gullibility at the max.
Hypocrisy matters to me. I respect honesty. My consumer vote doesn't economically matter much - but I'll use it if necessary.
A recent story that irritates me - Liam Neeson and his tirade about guns. Yet his movies make liberal use of them in his hands. They are problem solvers for him in his movies - the same reasons used by those that defend gun rights. Yet Mr. Neeson rants about a US obsession with guns? How can he take his position, yet blatantly promote their use in his "art" - and profit from it?
Michael Moore has been disgusting for a long time - and it begins with his intellectual dishonesty. I am shocked that anyone every worshiped him. Gullibility at the max.
Hypocrisy matters to me. I respect honesty. My consumer vote doesn't economically matter much - but I'll use it if necessary.
A recent story that irritates me - Liam Neeson and his tirade about guns. Yet his movies make liberal use of them in his hands. They are problem solvers for him in his movies - the same reasons used by those that defend gun rights. Yet Mr. Neeson rants about a US obsession with guns? How can he take his position, yet blatantly promote their use in his "art" - and profit from it?
Agree
It's like, all of the The Gun Rights advocates That praised and voted for President Ronald Reagan, yet Reagan did the least for us Gun owners, than any President in the history Of Untied States.
Why would you side with someone that doesn't have the same views as you do on guns.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 03-31-2015 at 05:29 PM..
Reason: Removed icons
Same Old Rant.. if your a Republican you HATE the other side.. all of them.. If Your a Democrat you TEND to hate many of the others and the rest are just confused as to what they support or believe in hahahahaha..Hypocrisy belongs to ALL OF US.. well if your honest with yourself that is....
If a hard-core right winger like Peter Schweizer writes about hypocrisy and only focuses on liberals, without giving equal attention to his own tribe, isn't that hypocritical in its own right?
Actually living in a mansion does if your going to tell people they need to make sacrifices in there daily lives for the environment. That's being extremely hypocritical. The same way flying around the world on private jets to events to talk about global warming is hypocritical as well...they really couldn't take a commercial flight like regular people do? It boils down to just being credible.
Using your standard, the Pope would be a hypocrite to live in the Vatican. Any Christians who don't turn the other cheeks when I slap them are hypocrites too. In fact, any country who claim to be a Christian nation who actively engaged in warfare is a grand big hypocrite.
See how dumb this is? I think the people who actually cared this much are the biggest hypocrites of them all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984
The solar panels on the roof aren't impressive since most people can't afford to put solar panels on there roof and preaching that people should put solar panels on there roof is elitist due to the average person not being able to afford it due to solar panels still being very expensive. That and they won't always cover your energy needs since a lot of people don't live somewhere like Los Angeles California and don't get as much sun light year round. Driving a Tesla is something the average person again can't afford so someone preaching people driving electric cars like a Tesla is a elitist. As far as the organic garden for the rich guy to grown there own food supply goes that comes off as him being elitist again since he very very likely has servants attend to the garden and regular people can't afford servants let alone have enough space to grow enough food for themselves in there yard to survive off. Your listing things to try and prove a point that they can walk the walk but what your listing is very elitist and not something average people can identify with and doesn't help in the credibility department.
Which rich person is telling you to put solar panels on your house and telling you to drive a Tesla??????????????????????????????
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Last edited by Oldhag1; 03-31-2015 at 05:31 PM..
Reason: Removed icons
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