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I remember when the state of Georgia wanted all citizens to have a valid state ID. They even offered to come to your door and make you an ID-FOR FREE-at your convenience! A great idea, right? No. Multiple groups of black Georgia residents complained, threatened lawsuits, etc.
Anyone fighting THAT hard to avoid getting a free, no effort photo ID is a person with something to hide. Pretty hard to vote in 12 or 15 precincts when you have a state certified photo ID.
I am in favor of everyone voting, making voting as easy as possible and yes- making voting mandatory. Oregon just passed a law automatically registering every resident of the state to vote.
I also think that gerrymandering should be outlawed and replaced with the Iowa model of a non partisan commission determining districts without any consideration for demographics or political party affiliation. As a result, districts are regular polygons, not strangely shaped, politically motivated lines
Wow! It's not every day that I enthusiastically agree with, and vociferously disagree with, the same person in the same post! I'm totally with you about gerrymandering. I think it's repulsive and completely antithetical to the democratic idea of equal representation, and I say this regardless of whether it's my party or the other one doing it. Iowa has the right idea, and I'd like to see every state do the same. Heck, I'd like to see the Supreme Court force every state to do it.
But mandatory voting? Absolutely not! If a right is obligatory, it's not a right, it's an obligation. A right is something that someone else cannot take away from you; but you have the "right" to choose not to exercise your own rights. You want to force everyone to vote? Well then, how 'bout we force everyone to keep and bear arms too! And let's bring back the draft too; after all, if you can be required to vote, why not be required to defend your country?
I don't want a bunch of uninformed, indifferent, surly people dragged to the polls under penalty of law, just to close their eyes, do "eeny-meeny-miny-moe" down the ballot, and thus decide who will govern me. I want my leaders to be chosen by people who inform themselves about the candidates and the issues; people for whom their government is important enough to undergo the minor inconvenience of going to the polls and casting their vote. And I couldn't care less if the electorate is 1 percent of the eligible population or 100 percent.
Why don't they do that now by accessing the secretary of state voter database, do you think it's not accessible? I mean really..why not just admit that you are concerned that people who do not align with your political ideology might just vote because of this.
You were the one who said 300,000 more people are registered in Oregon now. I'd suggest that perhaps many of these automatically registered weren't registered already because they're not interested in voting.
I would also doubt that it even crosses people's minds to opt out, even if they don't plan to vote.
Now, if you choose to ignore the possibility for fraud with having hundreds of thousands of people UNinterested in voting on the rolls, with voting by mail, no less... It's your state...
Wow! It's not every day that I enthusiastically agree with, and vociferously disagree with, the same person in the same post! I'm totally with you about gerrymandering. I think it's repulsive and completely antithetical to the democratic idea of equal representation, and I say this regardless of whether it's my party or the other one doing it. Iowa has the right idea, and I'd like to see every state do the same. Heck, I'd like to see the Supreme Court force every state to do it.
But mandatory voting? Absolutely not! If a right is obligatory, it's not a right, it's an obligation. A right is something that someone else cannot take away from you; but you have the "right" to choose not to exercise your own rights. You want to force everyone to vote? Well then, how 'bout we force everyone to keep and bear arms too! And let's bring back the draft too; after all, if you can be required to vote, why not be required to defend your country?
I don't want a bunch of uninformed, indifferent, surly people dragged to the polls under penalty of law, just to close their eyes, do "eeny-meeny-miny-moe" down the ballot, and thus decide who will govern me. I want my leaders to be chosen by people who inform themselves about the candidates and the issues; people for whom their government is important enough to undergo the minor inconvenience of going to the polls and casting their vote. And I couldn't care less if the electorate is 1 percent of the eligible population or 100 percent.
Sorry, I disagree with you. In a participatory democracy voting is essential. When we end up with only 1/3 of eligible people voting we have a problem; whether that is from apathy or voting laws, or not enough access to the polls..the end result is that we need more people to vote. Australia has had mandatory voting since 1924. There is no requirement that you mark the ballot, only that you show up at the polls receive the ballot and place it in the ballot box. I can't see how it has damaged their country and the Australian politicians I have read about seem to be pretty smart & politically center of the road moderates
Judging by some of our elected officials it's pretty clear that many voters are not very well informed, in fact some of them could make better choices by tossing a coin
You were the one who said 300,000 more people are registered in Oregon now. I'd suggest that perhaps many of these automatically registered weren't registered already because they're not interested in voting.
I would also doubt that it even crosses people's minds to opt out, even if they don't plan to vote.
Now, if you choose to ignore the possibility for fraud with having hundreds of thousands of people UNinterested in voting on the rolls, with voting by mail, no less... It's your state...
they don't have to vote, what is it that you don't get about that? There has never been a fraud problem with voting in Oregon, in fact voting by mail makes the process less subject to fraud than voting at polls. You get ONE ballot at the address you have registered with, you can't vote 13 times, or whatever you are worried about.
And SO WHAT if they don't opt out? No one is going to go drag them to the polls kicking and screaming.
This is just getting silly, clearly you have been sold hook line and sinker on the idea of voter ID and you will not consider any other options. So be it...I'm not going to waste my time responding to your comments when you could have found the same answers I am giving you by spending 2 minutes on Google.
and ask yourself how those other countries manage. Maybe US citizens are just too stupid or lazy to deal with those kind of requirements.
Hey, I like the Swiss rule set.
My question was not rhetorical and all the meaningless wikiposts don't provide the answer. Just answer the question and make sure there is no cost or undue hardship involved in obtaining the ID or using whatever process you develop for anyone including the disabled.
When my mother was in a nursing home, the social worker's organized a voter registration and ID procurement every year.
You how me any 95YR old WWll vet without some form of ID. Come on, get real!!
And they all know where it is, right? A number of years ago I misplaced my Social Security card which I needed for something - getting a new passport, maybe. Getting all the necessary documents together is not an easy task even for someone reasonably organized. Feel free to lay out an easy plan for all prospective voters to obtain proper ID at no cost with no hardship. Not everyone is in the care of your mother's nursing home and its social workers.
I think you are, since there no way to absolutely determine if a voter is valid without identifying them.
Quote:
N. O. People tried to suppress others to vote in this country once before. Others want to try to do it now. We will fight you all the way.
You can fight all you want. The law is not on your side and it's unlikely to change, this has already been determined by SCOTUS in 2008 and reaffirmed again in March when they declined to hear the Wisconsin case. A decision by SCOTUS can only be overturned by SCOTUS and that is very rare.
This is just getting silly, clearly you have been sold hook line and sinker on the idea of voter ID and you will not consider any other options.
What other options? Anything other than identifying the voter is not going to work and that includes absentee, mail and online voting. Any voting no matter what form it takes that does not identify the voter is subject to fraud.
What other options? Anything other than identifying the voter is not going to work and that includes absentee, mail and online voting. Any voting no matter what form it takes that does not identify the voter is subject to fraud.
where's all the fraud? Please enlighten me. As I said before this voter ID crap is a solution in search of a problem, and it is all about disenfranchising voters and you and I both know which voters the Republicans want to disenfranchise.
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