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The game is rigged, that post just articulated it. The only real difference a vote makes is if you vote D or R, the individual candidate means little if anything, so I think the choice is illusory and offered up for some kind of entertainment factor for the masses.
Here's an article that better describes my view on this issue:
Even though we are allowed to make a choice between D and R, we need to remember that the rich will never suffer under either party because, after all is said and done, this country is a plutocracy.
If the game is rigged, and voting doesn't matter, then why are you so vehemently opposed to Voter ID laws? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm asking a serious question: if voting makes no difference, why are you so concerned about how it is conducted?
Precisely how many fraudulent votes were cast in Florida for Bush in 2000?
Precisely how many fraudulent votes were cast in Florida for Gore in 2000?
You can't answer that and neither can anyone else. This is not a crime like murder where you have dead body and know it occurred. The reason you can't answer that is you first need to identify the voter to identify voter fraud.
Regardless of how anyone feels about the "voter ID" issue, I've always chuckled when someone says there is no voter fraud, or there is lots of voter fraud. Fact is, without checking ID, how the heck would you ever with any confidence be able to say there is, or isn't voter fraud going on ?
If a retail store never took a periodic inventory count, how would they ever be able to calculate shrinkage/shoplifting.....or know if there was, or wasn't a problem ? Since usually less than 50% of eligible voters even vote, it's unlikely any precinct would ever have more than 100% voting...which would be the only way currently that they would absolutely know that there was some fraud going on. Short of that happening, claiming fraud, or no fraud, is pretty much a guess unless one or more of the election judges know every single eligible voter in the precinct.
Voting is an important right in our country....but we have rules that govern appropriate use of other rights as well. You have a right to free speech, but cannot libel someone. We have a right (so far anyway) to own firearms....but in many cases there are mandated background checks, and registration of arms you purchase. So having to prove you are who you claim to be, and live where you claim to live doesn't necessarily seem so all that far fetched considering showing ID seems to be an ever present necessity these days.
If the game is rigged, and voting doesn't matter, then why are you so vehemently opposed to Voter ID laws? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm asking a serious question: if voting makes no difference, why are you so concerned about how it is conducted?
Where did I say voting doesn't matter? What I said was:
The only real difference a vote makes is if you vote D or R, the individual candidate means little if anything,
Regardless of how anyone feels about the "voter ID" issue, I've always chuckled when someone says there is no voter fraud, or there is lots of voter fraud. Fact is, without checking ID, how the heck would you ever with any confidence be able to say there is, or isn't voter fraud going on ?
If a retail store never took a periodic inventory count, how would they ever be able to calculate shrinkage/shoplifting.....or know if there was, or wasn't a problem ? Since usually less than 50% of eligible voters even vote, it's unlikely any precinct would ever have more than 100% voting...which would be the only way currently that they would absolutely know that there was some fraud going on. Short of that happening, claiming fraud, or no fraud, is pretty much a guess unless one or more of the election judges know every single eligible voter in the precinct.
Voting is an important right in our country....but we have rules that govern appropriate use of other rights as well. You have a right to free speech, but cannot libel someone. We have a right (so far anyway) to own firearms....but in many cases there are mandated background checks, and registration of arms you purchase. So having to prove you are who you claim to be, and live where you claim to live doesn't necessarily seem so all that far fetched considering showing ID seems to be an ever present necessity these days.
The detected amount of voter fraud is very, very low. That leaves you with two options- it is indicative that there is actually very little voter fraud in the US, or it proves that people who commit voter fraud are so good at it that it is never detected. When I vote, I show up at the polls and give my address, the poll worker has me sign my name adjacent to the box with my information. Only one person can sign it, so if someone is going to commit voter fraud how could they be assured that I won't walk in 5 minutes later and find out that they voted using my name, or how would they know I hadn't already voted?
But that aside, doesn't it strike you as just a little odd that voter ID laws only serve to stop one type of fraud while ignoring every other means? If it's such a big problem, why stop with photos- why not go after every possible means of voting fraud, including better scrutiny of computerized voting terminals?
Just so you don't think it's just those pesky inner city people who are having trouble voting;
Jim Wright 90 Year old ex Texas house speaker - Refused a voter ID card because his driver's license expired in 2010 and his faculty identification from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, where he teaches, doesn't meet requirements under the state law enacted in 2011
Answer: Get your driver's license renewed?
Paul Carroll 86 year old WW2 Vet - Poll worker denied his form of identification, a recently-acquired photo ID from the Department of Veterans Affairs. The poll worker rejected the ID because it did not contain an address, as required by Ohio law.
Answer: Go back to the Department of Veteran Affairs and see if one can be issued WITH his address....that, or simply get a State issued ID. They ALL have them?
Ruthelle Frank - 84 year-old former elected official who voted in every election for the last 63 years, yet she will be unable to obtain a voter ID unless she pays a fee to obtain a birth certificate from the Wisconsin government — despite the fact that the Constitution explicitly forbids any voter from being charged a fee in order to vote. Worse, because the attending physician at her birth misspelled her name on her original birth certificate, she may need to pay hundreds of dollars in court fees to petition the state judiciary to correct her certificate before she can obtain a voter ID.
Contact the local government and state government authorities...something can be worked out. Now, she was able to vote the "last 63 years" so what happened? Did they not ask for a photo ID all those years (At least as far back as a photo ID was required)...which begs the question, how did she vote legally the "last 63 years"?
Thelma Mitchell - 93-year-old woman who cleaned the Tennessee Capitol for 30 years. She never received a birth certificate, however, because she was delivered by a midwife in Alabama in 1918 and there was no record of her birth. When she attempted to obtain a voter ID, she was turned away for lack of a birth certificate by a clerk who suggested she could be an illegal immigrant.
I was able to get valid copies of my birth certificate, over the phone and online I believe through the state it was issued...cost about $25-$30 if I recall...this is no worse than what we paid for DL fees all these years? How did she ever drive...legally?
Krystal Watson is a student at Wiley College in Texas When she herself went to vote, she was not allowed to cast a ballot because she had a Louisiana driver’s license and a Wiley College ID, but not the ID required by the law.
Answer: Get the ID required by law??? Certainly she is not handicapped, is being college edumucated, and is able to drive...is it a quantum leap for her to "go online" and get the proper idea of what is necessary???? Wow, hard to believe you added this one as treacherous or mean spirited....
Joyce Block 91- Pennsylvania. She has an old voter registration card with her married name, but she has never had a driver's license. Block had all the documents on the Department of State checklist - birth certificate and Social Security card, both with her maiden name; her marriage certificate; deed to her house; Peco bills; plus her IRS refund check.
That wasn't enough to satisfy PennDot, Her Hebrew marriage license was rejected because the PennDot worker couldn't read Hebrew. And the deed and Peco bill were rejected because they had her married name, not her maiden name.
Answer: Get a state approved photo ID, they ALL have them....
Things change and they are painful for all of us...think DMV....and NOOOOOOOOO one gets a pass. These folks have logical answers to easy questions albeit annoying processes to become compliant.....I still have my SS card from my teenage years....I'm confident, with time, it will no longer be "valid"...and when THAT day comes, I'll simply get one that is???
There, no hard can that be? Or, do we need the nanny state to hold your hand to figure it out? Logical answers to simple questions.....
A veteran should have or will be able to obtain a military ID easily , yes? I don't recall seeing any of these state laws that did not accept a military ID.
If you are 19 years old and don't have ID you have more problems to worry about than voting.
So, two scenarios and two non-remedies. Two unconstitutional restrictions on people being freely able to exercise their right to vote. Do you have anything else? Because your stand is crumbling from under you.
Where did I say voting doesn't matter? What I said was:
The only real difference a vote makes is if you vote D or R, the individual candidate means little if anything,
That is precisely the pathetic outlook on politics that the ignorant follow in voting and that continue to keep us mired with politicians who serve a party and not the people.
Because this issue isn't about fraud and everything about stopping a certain segment of our population from voting. Generations ago rules were in place to make blacks show they could pass reading tests to vote. This is just a new strategy to restrict votes.
That's a red-herring. No one is demanding literacy tests.
Did you have an argument against requiring voters to show ID?
If so I'd like to hear it.
If you can seriously make an argument for your case without using red-herrings, false dichotomies, or invoking those pesky ad hominems, then I'm all ears.
I may be wrong but I feel that if a person doesn't have some form of legit ID
there is probably reasons for it that should also keep him or her from voting.
With no ID any one can walk in and vote where and when and maybe as many
times as he or she wants. As far as voter fraud goes there is a heck of a lot
more of it going on than maybe you would want to admit. People with no ID
usually wouldn't take the time to vote but when an offer of gifts are in the air
the wino from skid row will be in line to vote. He or she will vote for who ever
is offering the gift. Like I said I could be wrong but I really don't think that I am.
I may be wrong but I feel that if a person doesn't have some form of legit ID
there is probably reasons for it that should also keep him or her from voting.
With no ID any one can walk in and vote where and when and maybe as many
times as he or she wants. As far as voter fraud goes there is a heck of a lot
more of it going on than maybe you would want to admit. People with no ID
usually wouldn't take the time to vote but when an offer of gifts are in the air
the wino from skid row will be in line to vote. He or she will vote for who ever
is offering the gift. Like I said I could be wrong but I really don't think that I am.
oh please...you have to prove who you are when you register. When you vote you give your name and address and it has to match up with the registration- it's been that way forever. You have never been able to just walk in and just say "I want to vote". You sign your name affirming that you are in fact the person who is registered and you vote. If there was widespread fraud then the people who were actually registered to vote and who were not able to because someone else voted under their name should be screaming bloody murder, right? Well you don't hear them because there is no widespread voter fraud. We should be worried more about rigged voting machines than this issue.
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