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And I thought you Republicans were blaming the Democrats for death panels (more fake news). Isn't that exactly what you're suggesting?
I am NOT a Republican and I thought the "death panels," while a pejorative term, were a good idea. My support for Obamacare ended when that idea was dropped.
I am NOT a Republican and I thought the "death panels," while a pejorative term, were a good idea. My support for Obamacare ended when that idea was dropped.
Anyone who believes others should have control over whether they live or die ought to be ashamed. It's a personal decision between that person and God.
And Nixon apparently did not see himself as a crook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
...and I thought the "death panels," while a pejorative term, were a good idea. My support for Obamacare ended when that idea was dropped.
LOL! They never existed to begin with. It was all fake news invented by Sarah Palin. Her "staff" later claimed that she had been referring to provisions to allow doctors to be paid for up to one hour consulting at the request of a Medicare patient on matters such as living wills, advance directives, and other end-of-life care options. Those consults were occurring anyway. The only change was to allow doctors to bill and be paid for them
The first thing I will say is that our current model for delivering health care is untenable. It is grossly inefficient and costs far too much for individuals and for taxpayers. And to be clear, what we are discussing here is not health care but how we pay for it and how we get the costs down.
A health insurance model can work. For example, it works in Germany and Switzerland. But the reason it works in these countries is because government regulates in the interests of the citizen rather than in the interests of the insurance industry, the medical supply industry, the pharmaceutical industry or other provider interest groups. In the US it is the other way around.
Everyone posting on this thread should view this documentary.
Health Care isn't hard. As the post above notes, it has been largely solved in much of the civilized world.
Our system is sick for the one reason that people are loath to see - that our economic system (predatory consumer capitalism) doesn't work in the realm of health care. We are one of the only countries in the world to allow Direct to Consumer advertising of drugs, medical procedures, etc. - why? Only because of money....
At close to 3 TRILLION dollars a year, the health care segment makes a LOT of people a LOT of money. So the system itself will never reform from the inside. They (the medical-industrial complex) don't care if their costs have driven us into record debt. That debt is money in their pocket.
If ever there was a situation which called for massive government intervention and regulation, health care is it.
Someday the USA - or whatever this country becomes - will have universal health care as a right. The only question is how long we will break the bank before we come to our sense.
Health Care isn't hard. As the post above notes, it has been largely solved in much of the civilized world.
Our system is sick for the one reason that people are loath to see - that our economic system (predatory consumer capitalism) doesn't work in the realm of health care. We are one of the only countries in the world to allow Direct to Consumer advertising of drugs, medical procedures, etc. - why? Only because of money....
At close to 3 TRILLION dollars a year, the health care segment makes a LOT of people a LOT of money. So the system itself will never reform from the inside. They (the medical-industrial complex) don't care if their costs have driven us into record debt. That debt is money in their pocket.
If ever there was a situation which called for massive government intervention and regulation, health care is it.
Someday the USA - or whatever this country becomes - will have universal health care as a right. The only question is how long we will break the bank before we come to our sense.
Overall a very good post, although I disagree with what I bolded.
So the argument is for catastrophic insurance only? That's certainly what I think works best.
There are a few doctors in town here that are cash only, and they seem to have a respectable business model. It does seem to me that normal doctor visits and cheaper courses of drugs can be treated the same way as 90% of people deal with the dentist office, some combination of cash and/or VISA. It sure would be a huge simplifier for the entire billing system as no doubt a huge percentage of medical paper work involves a bill for $100 and is hardly worth the trouble.
Medical insurance for potential pauperization is an entirely different banana of course.
When you get down to it, the big problem that sits in the middle of the room is that people simply don't want to pay for their medical care at all. Since it can't be free, the payment has to be hidden in the works somewhere. With per capita US health care at something like $9k, you simply can't sell the concept of health insurance at $750/month/person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb at sea
You hit the nail on the head....prices for services rose when insurance came into being. Drop the prices to what folks can pay, and get rid of insurance altogether. Yeah, it will take a while for folks to realize that nothing is free (although they should know that anyway!)
My Uncle was in the hospital for 3 weeks....Medicare and his supplemental ins were billed $119,000, but between the 2 insurances, the price was dropped to $14,000 and then, they paid a portion of that! Still overpriced, but to take $105,000 off the bill? C'mon...not a real price at all!!!
The entire system is screwed up.
I repped both posts, and reflected this view on a more recent thread, Why Should Society Bail People Out From Bad Choices? Employer-paid health insurance was created as a loophole to evade WW II price controls in a politically acceptable manner. It was a bad idea then. Leveraging a bad idea doesn't make it good.
I needed an MRI a year ago. Using my insurance that I paid $15,000 a year for out of my own pocket, it would have cost $2,000 for my part and whatever paltry sum they would have covered despite my having already paid $13,000 of my deductible.
I called the facility and asked cash price.
$540 including the read.
I mean, seriously?!
My son was hospitalized in April 2016 and the bill for 18 hours in the hospital, one bag of normal saline, one dose of Tylenol, and some basic lab was $16,800.
Cash price $2400. But I didn't get to pay the cash price because they already figured out I had insurance. And my insurance only paid for about $6,000 of the stay. So here comes a big check I have to write.
It's appalling. One price for everyone would be a good start. Having "insurance" winds up costing you more money.
Because Obamacare caused me to lose all my doctors, I learned a lot about cash pay.
I needed an MRI a year ago. Using my insurance that I paid $15,000 a year for out of my own pocket, it would have cost $2,000 for my part and whatever paltry sum they would have covered despite my having already paid $13,000 of my deductible.
I called the facility and asked cash price.
$540 including the read.
I mean, seriously?!
My son was hospitalized in April 2016 and the bill for 18 hours in the hospital, one bag of normal saline, one dose of Tylenol, and some basic lab was $16,800.
Cash price $2400. But I didn't get to pay the cash price because they already figured out I had insurance. And my insurance only paid for about $6,000 of the stay. So here comes a big check I have to write.
It's appalling. One price for everyone would be a good start. Having "insurance" winds up costing you more money.
Because Obamacare caused me to lose all my doctors, I learned a lot about cash pay.
I repped this very informative post. I think more people should find out what the "cash" prices are. I think we need to shout from the hilltops that we as a country are being fleeced as insurers and medical care providers ditz up huge bills for virtually no added value.
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