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Seems like the latest crisis manufactured to divide the country is now the removal of anything to remind us of slavery, something that was abolished 150 years ago. Front and center is the Confederate flag but there is also talk of removing anything related to slavery, from the Jefferson Memorial to the renaming of military bases and counties after Confederate Generals to even renaming our nations capitol because George Washington was a slave owner.
One of the comments I read on one of the stories related to such asked the question of whether all blacks should go back to Africa too. They are after all an everyday reminder of slavery. A very interesting thought, both provocative and interesting at the same time. What about the descendants of slave owners? Should they be sent back to Europe? Makes one wonder, when is enough, enough? How far will we go with this PC nonsense? There is a saying along the lines of, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it". By the removal of all vestiges of anything Confederate, is our future to divide the country to the point of civil war again? If ever we needed a leader to unite the country, it's now. This division thing is only working out for those in power, which is playing out exactly how they want it.
It was tried once. It didn't work then, why would it work now?
"The American Colonization Society was founded in 1816 by American Robert Finley to return freed African American slaves to Africa. In 1820, the first former U.S. slaves arrived from the United States at the British colony of Sierra Leone, and in 1821 the American Colonization Society founded the colony of Liberia south of Sierra Leone as a homeland for former slaves outside British jurisdiction. The American Colonization Society came under attack from U.S. abolitionists, who charged that the removal of freed slaves from the United States strengthened the institution of slavery. In addition, most Americans of African descent were not enthusiastic about abandoning their native lands in the United States for the harsh West African coast. Nevertheless, between 1822 and the American Civil War, some 15,000 African Americans settled in Liberia."
From Wikipedia; "Liberia".
Technically, the Confederate Battle Flag never represented slavery. During debate for the first official flag of the CSA that design was specifically rejected. It was later used in a square form to identify the Army of Virginia on the battlefield, then was modified into a rectangular form to identify the CSA's Navy and the Army of Tennessee. And then later still it was included in the canton of the second and third official flags of the CSA, as well as the canton of various other battle groups. But the canton is only a small portion of the entire flag.
The reason that flag represents so much anger is because of what happened after the war and after slavery was abolished. It was flown by the last vestigial "armies" (really just small bands of former confederate soldiers who formed outlaw gangs) who didn't recognize Lee's surrender and kept fighting. But they didn't fight on a battlefield, they fought in dark raids; murdering, raping, and burning. It was flown by the KKK during lynchings and rallies. It was a symbol representing Jim Crow. Any time minorities tried to assert their rights, any time they tried to uphold the statement found in the USA's Declaration of Independence claiming that "all men are created equal", their oppressors proudly clutched and flew that symbol in defiance.
That symbol has no business representing any modern society that is composed partly of people who were oppressed under that flag. Of course it belongs as a decoration on graves and memorials to the soldiers who died under it. As a Symbol it is fully protected by the First Amendment's free speech clause, so no one can "ban" it. Fly it from your 4x4 pickup, get a tattoo, wear a Rebel Flag mankini.
But it did not belong as part of Georgia's state flag (removed a while back) and it does not belong as part of Mississippi's state flag.
As for returning the descendants of slaves back to Africa, that time has passed. Redraven is correct about Liberia, but modern "African Americans" are no more "African" than I am.
Also, contrary to the ignorance of the people trying to deport anyone whose skin is darker than theirs, not all dark-skinned peoples came here in the hold of a slave ship. There were many Africans who immigrated as free people both during colonial times and in the years before the Civil War. Even the original slaves were the equivalent of indentured servants; they worked a set time and they went free. These free people lived normal lives, even intermarrying with other races. Look up the Melungeons of Appalachia as one of many possible examples.
Last edited by An Einnseanair; 07-09-2015 at 07:30 AM..
Some of those Civil War generals honored in statues involve more than their actions during the Civil War. In those days many people held great patriotism and love towards their state the way conservatives today hold for the nation. For some of these generals, it was about loyalty to their state and if their state chose to become a part of the confederacy then those generals had to make a hard decision to either remain with their original oaths towards USA and fight against the people of his home state or give up on his oath to USA and remain loyal to his home state as well as the confederacy. It wasn't an easy decision. To make matters worse, the generals they were to fight against in the Civil War included some of their fellow West Point graduates. Some of these generals went on to do good things in the local community after the civil war. On the flip side, not all of the generals on the side of the North were good. The generals and troops in the Union Army were just as racist and bigoted as those in the Confederacy and some of them also owned slaves. Also, some of those Union officers went on to commit mass murder and slaughter after the Civil War against the native Americans in the central and western states.
The problem is the Black people who are descendants of slaves were never integrated with whites. They were segregated that led to 100 years of people who were never educated which lead to blacks living poor. Today we are paying for that mistake of white people who made that bad decision back then. European country's like the England did not segregate the descendants of slaves today they do not have the same issues as we do here in America. The confederate flag represents states who wanted to keep slavery going. If this country wants to move forward and integrate all races together the flag needs to go.
The problem is the Black people who are descendants of slaves were never integrated with whites. They were segregated that led to 100 years of people who were never educated which lead to blacks living poor. Today we are paying for that mistake of white people who made that bad decision back then. European country's like the England did not segregate the descendants of slaves today they do not have the same issues as we do here in America. The confederate flag represents states who wanted to keep slavery going. If this country wants to move forward and integrate all races together the flag needs to go.
They didn't want to keep people slaves because they hated them, they simply wanted to keep their businesses going using their cheap labor. Much like businesses fight for now with Mexican illegals. It's about money, not harming people. But, yes, people did and do get harmed by it. They are casualties of a capitalist system.
They were making money, it was threatened, they fought over it, they lost. End of story. Casualties happen in any system, or war. It's never a good thing but it always occurs. Slaves were sold as labor by Africa, they were bought and used as cheap labor. It was acceptable at the time, by a lot of countries not just the U.S.
Sad, yes of course, but it wasn't a bunch of people who simply got off owning others for fun. Some people were nice, some were not. You have to ask yourself what Africa was thinking when they started to sell humans? What a barbaric idea, but it seemed to fly for a period of our existence. Glad that's over.
But, we should pay closer attention to our future and less to it's past wrongs as we are guilty of making a profit off the backs of illegals we refuse to return. Big business loves cheap labor they can treat badly and pay nothing livable to. We might want to ensure we don't do this anymore.
Seems like the latest crisis manufactured to divide the country is now the removal of anything to remind us of slavery, something that was abolished 150 years ago. Front and center is the Confederate flag but there is also talk of removing anything related to slavery, from the Jefferson Memorial to the renaming of military bases and counties after Confederate Generals to even renaming our nations capitol because George Washington was a slave owner.
The only thing "manufactured" is the belief that this was manufactured.
I don't want a single thing removed that "reminds" this nation of slavery and the 100 years of racial discrimination; funny how that part always get's left out of the discussion. Rather I would love to see actual monuments to slavery, discrimination and the physical terrorism that was used to enforce both. What folks do want, is to remove the false idealization of those who fought to continue slavery and those who helped to perpetuate everything the slave south stood for.
If we remove all vestiges of slavery, should all descendants of slaves and slave owners go back "home"?
Removing all of the vestiges of slavery would also include the slavers, would it not? Why does it make logical sense to you only to include the victims of slavery, rather than the victims?
Yes! Certainly the OP is engaging in reductio ad absurdum by trying to "demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance".
While I believe that we must not forget history, neither must we revel in or rub others' noses in these painful events. We've had 150 years to "commemorate" the Confederate flag for whatever positive associations it may have had (not that I see much that is positive). We are nearly 8 generations removed from that era - it's time to move on to better things...to "get with the program"!
The problem is the Black people who are descendants of slaves were never integrated with whites. They were segregated that led to 100 years of people who were never educated which lead to blacks living poor. Today we are paying for that mistake of white people who made that bad decision back then. European country's like the England did not segregate the descendants of slaves today they do not have the same issues as we do here in America. The confederate flag represents states who wanted to keep slavery going. If this country wants to move forward and integrate all races together the flag needs to go.
European country's like the England did not segregate the descendants of slaves
The English were responsible for bringing Slavery into the country in addition to being the greatest colonizer in the world. They created Slavery in the Americas along with other European countries and deserve no free pass.
"Only the Portuguese, who carried on the trade for almost 50 years after Britain had abolished its Slave Trade, carried more enslaved Africans to the Americas than the British (the most recent estimate suggests just over 5 million people)."
European country's like the England did not segregate the descendants of slaves
The English were responsible for bringing Slavery into the country in addition to being the greatest colonizer in the world. They created Slavery in the Americas along with other European countries and deserve no free pass.
"Only the Portuguese, who carried on the trade for almost 50 years after Britain had abolished its Slave Trade, carried more enslaved Africans to the Americas than the British (the most recent estimate suggests just over 5 million people)."
Slavery was standard practice in many country's for 1000s of years going back before Roman times even Native American tribes had slaves not an a large scale. I didn't say England wasn't responsible for slavery what I said was when they abolished slavery they did not segregate they integrated and educated blacks living in the UK. Now we are paying for not doing that after the civil war because we have an entire class of people that were kept poor by segregating them. You can try to sugar coat it anyway you want that is what happened. Now that crime is a problem with the black community white people want to keep them segregated because whites don't want to live near those community's. How do you fix this the government needs to spend real money on police and education. If you look at any poor black area of town the schools are terrible, but they belong to the same state school system where in white areas those schools have money pouring into them.
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Glad that's over. 