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You're basically saying that people shouldn't have to work for survival. If there were a basic income guarantee, what's the incentive for people to work? What's the incentive for people who don't have skills to work in low-wage jobs? The employee pull will shrink so yes (music to your ears), there will be an upward pressure on wages. BUT because of they will have to pay more for low skilled workers they'll have to raise prices, reducing the buying power of the basic income.
Government ---> Boom ---> Bust
Now forcing those who are willing to work to pay higher taxes and to work more to keep up with inflation.
petch751,
The people who own the technology that is eliminating the jobs are already rich. This is kicking the concentration of wealth into overdrive. Yes, the tax base is shrinking; every day the money is becoming more concentrated in fewer hands. That is what unbridled capitalism does.
Anyway, do you believe that there will be jobs for everyone well into the future? If you do, it is silly for us to argue about our politics, because that is the very undoing of unbridled capitalism and if you don't think it is happening, there is no point in trying to discuss why we need changes.
So in your world no one, not the middle class, not the poor, not the young has a chance in hell to build wealth? In your world the rich are already rich and the doors to wealth are closed for everyone else... change your cd-name to Doomer. Well you're right if we keep listening to people like you.
No one will continue "building that" business that do employ and can grow to employ more people. What you did is raise taxes on the "trying but not rich yet", people trying to run businesses that employ and omg, also trying to grow their wealth. How dare they? If I grow my business, taking more risk, more responsibility but have to hand even more to the government, what do you think I'm going to do? I'm not going to grow the business, it's not worth it.
You may as well give up and go to the beach. The poor are poor for many reasons but you don't bring down people who are trying, some, yes who will become successful only to become owned more by the government. You don't demand more be taken from people busting their asses to make a better life or they too will just go to the beach and wait for a handout.
This will sound rude but thinking that it's ok for some people to work to support those who won't is obnoxious and pathetic. Take your pie in the sky liberal thinking and go to the beach.
The poor who want a handout will never produce jobs,
Business and small business are the job producers.
So in your world no one, not the middle class, not the poor, not the young has a chance in hell to build and become rich? The rich are already rich and the doors to wealth are closed. Well you're right if we keep listening to people like you.
No one will continue "building that" business that do employ and can grow to employ more people. What you did is raise taxes on them making it harder for the up and coming to grow business and gain wealth. If I grow my business, taking more risk, more responsibility but have to hand even more to the government, what do you think I'm going to do? I'm not going to grow the business, it's not worth it.
You may as well give up and go to the beach. The poor are poor for many reasons but you don't bring down those trying, you don't demanding more be taken from them or they too will just go to the beach and wait for a handout. This will sound rude but thinking that it's ok for some people to work to support those who won't is obnoxious and pathetic. Take your pie in the sky liberal thinking and go to the beach.
The poor who want a handout will never produce jobs,
Business and small business are the job producers.
You know taxes are at a record low? Judging by the way the rich didn't just roll over and give up in the past the sky won't fall down if taxes go up.
You may as well give up and go to the beach. The poor are poor for many reasons but you don't bring down those trying, you don't demanding more be taken from them or they too will just go to the beach and wait for a handout.
I might. People like to talk about how capitalism is all about greed and screwing others and "I've got mine, scr<w you." But if you remove any incentive for working hard, or achieving more than the others in my class or neighborhood, or any incentive for working at all, I would probably head to the beach myself.
Scr<w you, I've got mine, I don't need to work, others will support me, there's no incentive for me to do more.
THAT'S the REAL selfish attitude. THAT'S the REAL greed, the real "I've got mine" brush-off. Socialism can breed selfishness and greed and thoughtlessness just as capitalism can, but it's an even more insidious form.
You know taxes are at a record low? Judging by the way the rich didn't just roll over and give up in the past the sky won't fall down if taxes go up.
The rich are "already rich", they don't depend on income and can control the type of income unlike the middle class who are dependent on income. Try getting a higher paying job, a job so you have money left over to start building your own wealth and tell me what happens after you figure out how much you owe the government.
If you think that the "already rich" depend on "income" you don't have a clue how it works. The rich are "ALREADY" rich, they don't need their income to build wealth like the middle class needs more income above their expenses to build wealth. The problem is if a middle class person increases their income the government takes more / a higher percentage for some.
The progressive tax system helps keep you down. What is so damn hard for you to understand
petch and Reach, what do you think, conceptually, about LOWERING the Income Tax while INSTITUTING a Wealth Tax?
Wealth tax won't work. Do your parents own a home? They have wealth in the form of home equity. They are already taxed on it for school tax but now getting social security couldn't afford a wealth tax. I'm sure there are better examples but it won't work.
The collection of taxes is needed but you don't disincentives people from taking care of their own and encourage dependency on others like the government is doing with the progressive tax code and welfare. I'm more for a consumption tax but even that is not perfect. Mostly I'm for the government getting it's house in order, stop spending money the tax payer can't support and constantly demanding more from hard working Americans. We have to balance our budget it's time they stop buying votes, wasting money and catering to big money. But that's how they get into office.
Anyone who thinks the uber rich will actually support laws / tax code that will hurt them is a useful idiot and fool.
petch and Reach, what do you think, conceptually, about LOWERING the Income Tax while INSTITUTING a Wealth Tax?
It's not the already wealthy that government (Obama) went after. Government knows that the middle class depends on "income". The lower and middle class is already tapped out (basic income) so they went after the upper class (people with more than basic income) and raised taxes "on that income". The money those people worked hard for and can be used to build wealth through investing in growing a business or investing in other businesses i.e. higher "full time" employment, higher wages but because people bought into and supported the lie, instead that money now goes to the government.
When Obama was singing in your ear "I'll get the rich", I'll raise taxes on income", he knew damn he was lying but he also knew that most poor and middle class didn't know any better and wrongly equate income with wealth, he lied, they are different. Remember Gruber, a liberal calling Americans a bunch of financial illiterates?
He knew he wouldn't be able to touch the rich. The rich wouldn't have allowed it. The rich can afford to go to DC and fight it, they also can pay very smart tax attorneys, they can move their assets around... they have control of their assets and money. It's the people who depend on income who are the most vulnerable and the easiest target for the government grab.
All you need is a snake oil salesman to sing music in people's ears (I'll get the rich people), play on people's jealousy, play on their emotions and the people who have given up, people who think they'll get a piece of that money jump on board. I'm surprised he didn't hand out pitchforks but that wouldn't have funneled more money to the government.
petch and Reach, what do you think, conceptually, about LOWERING the Income Tax while INSTITUTING a Wealth Tax?
It is political suicide for anyone to suggest it but that does get at the problem better. The problem is that we allowed the wealth to get concentrated potentially past the point of no return and the people who have it would justifiably feel like they were being robbed if we took a big chunk of it to try to fix the system. I totally get how competition and incentive and all the wonderful things about capitalism works. I don't understand how anyone can say that having the majority of the wealth end up in the hands of less than 1% of the population is a good thing. Ideologies aside, it scares me to think how this might get corrected if we don't take steps to correct it within the system.
If I had, say, $10M in wealth, I'd have most or all of it in Muni bonds, Muni bond funds, and Muni money markets. A good Muni bond fund generates around 4.5% per year, so my money would generate about $450,000 per year, all completely TAX FREE.
Does anyone want to do away with the tax exemption on Munis? Or phase it out for the wealthy (who are the ones who buy Munis due to the tax benefit)? States and cities would be in huge trouble if we did.
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