Is it time for a new socio-economic paradigm ? (Iran, middle east, Canada)

[Snowball7]

Originally Posted by 2nd trick op

I understand your point perfectly, and respectfully disagree. The people who hold that wealth will either fritter it away, convert it to forward-thinking purposes with which they can identify, or see it confiscated by the state in the form of taxes (in which case, anther gang of Politically Correct incompetents and dreamers will fritter it away).

Neither you, nor I, nor the Pope has any business sitting in judgment on this; unless interfered with by those in the pursuit of power, the markets (the sum total of all human decisions and interaction), will rule in the end,

You are advocating nihilism. There is no absolute good within "markets" or profit motives.
There also have been examples in history where wealth that is deemed ill-gotten has
not been re-distrubuted by taxes, but by bloodshed.

[Marc Paolella]

Originally Posted by Snowball7

You are advocating nihilism. There is no absolute good within "markets" or profit motives.
There also have been examples in history where wealth that is deemed ill-gotten has
not been re-distrubuted by taxes, but by bloodshed.

Since the market is based on freedom, trade, and reason, it is best to leave wealth creation and distribution to the free market.

Since the Pope is based in irrationality, mysticism, and altruism-collectivism, it is best to ignore his rather silly and run-of-the-mill Marxist rantings.

Let's not forget that the Pope is essentially a big leech, like the Royal Family in Britain. He never created anything and is not intellectually qualified to sit in judgement of productive people or anyone else. In fact, since he renounces reason and freedom, anything he says should be taken very lightly, sort of like I did with my sweet old grandpa when he turned 97 and was still issuing communist positions from his rocking chair.

[Marc Paolella]

Originally Posted by Snowball7

You are advocating nihilism. There is no absolute good within "markets" or profit motives.
There also have been examples in history where wealth that is deemed ill-gotten has
not been re-distrubuted by taxes, but by bloodshed.

The profit motive is the ultimate good. Profit is good, money is good, ambition to make money is good, greed is good. We all want to produce, excel, and profit. Those that do it best make the most money and good for them. Those that don't do it so well make a living. But we're all doing it every day, and the profit motive represents the BEST within humanity.

[redguard57]

Oh sure, because the head of the Catholic Church - which represents about 1 billion people and is an instutition going on 1700 years old, more or less, yeah that's nothing to be listened to.

Oh, we shouldn't pay any attention to that mysticism. Instead of a mystical God we should let ourselves be guided by an Invisible Hand that always does the right thing.

That's logical.

I don't know what's worse - the disdain for religion or the inability to see that belief in free market orthodoxy is an article of faith in itself. No, I do know what's worse. The latter.

[Travelassie]

Originally Posted by Snowball7

Pope Francis delivered a fiery denunciation of modern capitalism on Thursday night, calling the "unfettered pursuit of money" the "dung of the devil" and accusing world leaders of "cowardice" for refusing to defend the earth from exploitation.
Speaking to grassroots organizers in Bolivia, the Pope called on the poor and disenfranchised to rise up against "new colonialism," including corporations, loan agencies, free trade treaties, austerity measures, and "the monopolizing of the communications media."
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/07/world/pope-mass-ecuador-quito/index.html

Must the emphasis on profit for profit only be restrained by law ?
Is a fairer distribution of planetary resources, more carefully controlled, desirable now ?
Do indigenous people have the right to their own territories ?
Is the Earth at a tipping point concerning human impact ?
Has the Industrial Revolution outlived its license for unfettered growth ?
What is the goal and what is the responsibility of humankind ?
Should the futures of the many be of lesser importance than a plutocracy of the few ?

Do you agree with Pope Francis on socio-economic-environmental issues ?
If so, what can be done ?
If not, explain why not.

He is operating out of his job description to dictate politics to the rest of the world.

[ukrkoz]

It's just another puppet speaking. Pay no attention to it. WORDS are irrelevant and spoken only by those who allowed to be promoted to a chair or position, by Elite.
Oh, it's the POPE, right? Can't possibly be controlled by anyone else, right? Well, find out who is custodian of RCC wealth. Then do some research on at least that name. Then come maybe to your OWN conclusions?

[2nd trick op]

Originally Posted by Snowball7

You are advocating nihilism. There is no absolute good within "markets" or profit motives.

I'm not advocating nihilism, only neutrality; render unto Caesar, render unto the Lord, and render unto the free exchange of human commerce and opinion.

There also have been examples in history where wealth that is deemed ill-gotten has not been re-distrubuted by taxes, but by bloodshed.

And in all of those examples, it was the pursuit of power -- the arch-foe of the workings of the marketplace, that got innocent people hurt, or worse. The Nazis, the Stalinists, and the Islamo-Fascists all share a common desire for the pursuit of unlimited power. Organized religion has a less-brutal history, but the times to which has sunk to the abuse of power are directly correlated to the times when it had the most of it.

[LexusNexus]

I agree. Capitalism doesn't work in America because of Slavery. Slavery created a hierarchy, with whites at the top enjoying every advantage imaginable, and blacks on the bottom forced to struggle with every single disadvantage known to mankind. These unequal positions are and have always been a cancer, and in order for the system to be fair to everyone, whites must be forced to give up the "unearned privileges" they enjoy. Blacks, native Americans, and any other group which has been historically-discriminated against and disadvantage because of their race, must be made whole.

Only when all participants in the system have equal positions, will the system be fair to everyone, not just whites.

[bjimmy24]

The pope doesn't really get the world. Capitalism doesn't keep the poor people poor. Government policies rob their potential. And about environmental spending, what's his point? National leaders have been robbing the people too much or not enough? Where does he think the money comes from to support national environmental work? Also, if pursuing profit is so evil, shouldn't he want people to be poor?

This is all rich, coming from a guy who comes from a direct line of hitler and Mussolini supporters.

[redguard57]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

The pope doesn't really get the world. Capitalism doesn't keep the poor people poor. Government policies rob their potential. And about environmental spending, what's his point? National leaders have been robbing the people too much or not enough? Where does he think the money comes from to support national environmental work? Also, if pursuing profit is so evil, shouldn't he want people to be poor?

This is all rich, coming from a guy who comes from a direct line of hitler and Mussolini supporters.

Well if we destroy the environment then we'll cease to live - everything we have comes from the earth, it's all a reciprocal system. Until we start mining asteroids and colonizing space it's probably a good idea to keep our planet habitable.

Or rather, not change our climate so much that the planet changes and becomes uninhabitable for us. The planet will be fine - the worst we could possibly do to it would be cleaned out by natural processes in 100,000 years, that's like a day in the life of the Earth. But us? We're fragile, we won't survive that.