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I work in a major city with one of the, if not the highest homeless populations in the country.My state used to have a model operation of mental hospitals with associated layers of other facilities to safely house people who are mentally unable to be in society and/or unable to ever have the ability to do so. However, that system was dismantled to pay for a new public employee retirement program and mass transit in this city. Now those people have mostly been cast into the streets to live or die.
As I was walking along early this morning seeking a couple of doughnuts I crossed paths with more than 1 person that was deeply mentally gone (please don’t bother to ask if I am a doctor, as I am not- however, I think you know what I mean as we have all seen people past all hope) and knowing they have nowhere to go due to their condition (they cannot be housed in any form of homeless shelter as they are too dangerous), they simply end up dead on the streets thru one way or another.So that got me to thinking if there should be a method of determining which people have medically zero hope of ever being able to function on any level in society, and if lacking a proper place to house them, of putting them to death humanely.
My first immediate thought was, "hell no- they're humans and deserve to live". But on further reflection I realized we have the death penalty, abortion, assisted suicide… and perhaps this a better thing to do for the health and safety of all involved. I realize there would have to be some heavy duty means of making the final determination, but it could be done.
we have thousands of people staggering around Portland that are not just drug addicts but mentally insane and they have no hope at all. I was wondering what will become of them and is there something that can be done aside from an institution (that really hardly exists anymore) or otherwise.
This is a matter of ethics, eugenics, and euthanasia. These are delicate, controversial subjects. Nobody wants to be the next Hitler. I understand why lawmakers & politicians continue to ignore the homeless & senile & hopeless. They pose an ethical problem that doesn't fit into the tidy box of capitalism.
Euthanasia is a highly objectionable matter. These people need programs & shelter. Period.
But since you say your city has done away with those options, and some of your homeless wouldn't fit into any shelters or programs, I understand why you think humane euthanasia should be considered. If the law could ever be extended to allow such practices, certainly the subjects ought to at least be given the OPTION to die peacefully or continue living as they are.
This is a matter of ethics, eugenics, and euthanasia. Controversial subjects. Nobody wants to be the next Hitler. I understand why lawmakers & politicians continue to ignore the homeless & senile & hopeless. They pose an ethical problem that doesn't fit into the tidy box of capitalism.
Euthanasia is a highly objectionable matter. These people need programs & shelter. Period.
But since you say your city has done away with those options, and some of your homeless wouldn't fit into any shelters or programs, I understand why you think humane euthanasia should be considered. If the law could ever be extended to allow such practices, certainly the subjects ought to at least be given the OPTION to die peacefully or continue living as they are.
Its a matter of ethics and money. As you said, these people ideally need programs and shelter. The ethical/financial question is to what extent should the rest of society be forced to pay for that.
I do agree that free assisted suicide should be an option, but what if the individual is mentally ill? Who decides?
This is a matter of ethics, eugenics, and euthanasia. These are delicate, controversial subjects. Nobody wants to be the next Hitler. I understand why lawmakers & politicians continue to ignore the homeless & senile & hopeless. They pose an ethical problem that doesn't fit into the tidy box of capitalism.
Euthanasia is a highly objectionable matter. These people need programs & shelter. Period.
But since you say your city has done away with those options, and some of your homeless wouldn't fit into any shelters or programs, I understand why you think humane euthanasia should be considered. If the law could ever be extended to allow such practices, certainly the subjects ought to at least be given the OPTION to die peacefully or continue living as they are.
It is the 2,000 pound elephant in the room.
My father was a doctor at a state hospital and many of the patients lived a sad, but safe life. Now they walk the streets of Portland.
Its a matter of ethics and money. As you said, these people ideally need programs and shelter. The ethical/financial question is to what extent should the rest of society be forced to pay for that.
I do agree that free assisted suicide should be an option, but what if the individual is mentally ill? Who decides?
Fully agreed.
I suppose a state board of doctors would make the decision. Examination to determine if there is any hope and then if not and there is no room for the person, putting them down.
I suppose a state board of doctors would make the decision. Examination to determine if there is any hope and then if not and there is no room for the person, putting them down.
This is the part that makes me uncomfortable. You can justify taking such people off the streets by force because they may pose a threat to others, but its hard to take it a step further and put them to death.
First, its pretty clear that the only reason for doing so would be that its cheaper to kill them than to house them. But my real concern would be that it would now be in the hands of the politically appointed to decide who gets to live or die, and for what reason. Today its because they are schizophrenic and unable to communicate, tomorrow the Board decides that they deserve to die because their unemployment benefits ran out and they can't get work. Ok, its a bit of a stretch, but I'd rather leave life and death decisions in the hands of juries -- even that is controversial enough.
This is the part that makes me uncomfortable. You can justify taking such people off the streets by force because they may pose a threat to others, but its hard to take it a step further and put them to death.
First, its pretty clear that the only reason for doing so would be that its cheaper to kill them than to house them. But my real concern would be that it would now be in the hands of the politically appointed to decide who gets to live or die, and for what reason. Today its because they are schizophrenic and unable to communicate, tomorrow the Board decides that they deserve to die because their unemployment benefits ran out and they can't get work. Ok, its a bit of a stretch, but I'd rather leave life and death decisions in the hands of juries -- even that is controversial enough.
It is indeed a sticky issue as to who would decide (if indeed it ever even came to that).
One thought a coworker had was to take 1 prison in each state and remove the non violent offenders and replace them with the mentally insane. Don't know if I like that one, but it's a thought.
It is still a dumb idea. See my edit above btw which is why it is a dumb idea. I'm not calling you dumb. Just the idea.
Though technically it is a horrific idea.
Some things aren't debatable. Murdering people (*ahem* humanely *ahem* or not) is not really a Great Debate, is it?
[Mod Cut] it's still a legitimate debate as it is, at least in my city/state, a very real problem.
With respect to murdering people, we murder babies- what's the difference? Or is there?
Last edited by Jeo123; 08-06-2015 at 10:44 AM..
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