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Let's start the story at this moment. Anglo upper class " white men " started this nation. At the moment this photo was painted or whatever .. each and every one of these men had the same thought.. this country is for us and our children only. That's it. We have been through enough **** in Europe , we had to eliminate those pesky Natives, fight a war of independence and now we have a relatively sweet thing going on .. we are going to import slaves from Europe and Africa, sit back , count our money , live a life of leisure. This is our country now. Amen. And BTW , " all men are created equal " ... .
And this went on for years until ..there had to be a clear separation between the " whites " and the " blacks ". You see , the lower class indentured servants from both Europe and Africa were just too many , they could have overthrown their upper class masters ( who were still all Anglo upper class white men ) and taken their fair share. But , these masters were smart people.
By throwing those poor European indentured servants a bone , by telling them , hey buddy , you and us are in the same group .. let's unite against these africans. Let's screw them over. We'll give you some privileges.. based solely on the fact that you.. just like us have ... white skin. You will do the dirty deeds .. slave patrols and what not.
Thus , the very basis of the U.S as a white supremacist social club was established. It continues to this day in a much diluted , much more politically correct way.
Curious. Which immigrant groups want the "majority" culture (what ever that is, gin debates about regional cultures in the USA) to change?
THAT is a fantasy from those who DO NOT accept multi cultural societies, which the USA has become. Whether Trump (with his FOREIGN wives) and his supporters wish to accept this.
In fact, since its founding, the USA has ALWAYS been multicultural.
Yes, the United States HAS always been multicultural. I do not dispute that at all.
When I said that "we we do have a problem with those new arrivals who want the majority culture to conform to a minority culture", what I was referring to, for example, are those people who insist on playing the music of their native culture at full volume in quiet neighborhoods and expecting their neighbors to just suck it up. But, yes, I will admit that "conform" might have been the wrong word to use. Perhaps I should have said "accept the minority culture, no matter how annoying it may be" instead.
I was also referring to some towns requiring school children to dress conservatively so as not to offend their Muslim classmates or for restaurants to stop serving pork because it is against the religion of some, although, granted, these kinds of "accommodations" have not yet affected us in the U.S. Oh, wait, I forgot about the following:
Now, the people in the above were unsuccessful, but how much longer do you think it will be until they succeed?
And, to repeat what I said earlier, I have NOTHING against any people of any race, religion, culture, or country of origin, as long as they don't interfere with my own culture.
Yes, the United States HAS always been multicultural. I do not dispute that at all.
When I said that "we we do have a problem with those new arrivals who want the majority culture to conform to a minority culture", what I was referring to, for example, are those people who insist on playing the music of their native culture at full volume in quiet neighborhoods and expecting their neighbors to just suck it up. But, yes, I will admit that "conform" might have been the wrong word to use. Perhaps I should have said "accept the minority culture, no matter how annoying it may be" instead.
I was also referring to some towns requiring school children to dress conservatively so as not to offend their Muslim classmates or for restaurants to stop serving pork because it is against the religion of some, although, granted, these kinds of "accommodations" have not yet affected us in the U.S. Oh, wait, I forgot about the following:
Now, the people in the above were unsuccessful, but how much longer do you think it will be until they succeed?
And, to repeat what I said earlier, I have NOTHING against any people of any race, religion, culture, or country of origin, as long as they don't interfere with my own culture.
Let me ask you this .. why do you have to use the phrase " music of their native culture " ? Why can't you just say , some people play " music " too loud and it disturbs me and I don't like it. Why do you have to make it ... us vs them ...majority vs minority ...
Let me ask you this .. why do you have to use the phrase " music of their native culture " ? Why can't you just say , some people play " music " too loud and it disturbs me and I don't like it. Why do you have to make it ... us vs them ...majority vs minority ...
Because the subject being discussed is the assimilation of immigrants into the majority culture.
If the subject being discussed was "What kind of music do you dislike?", then I would have simply answered, "Any music that is played so loudly that it disturbs whatever I am doing or trying to do" and I think I would leave the subject of the KIND of music out of my answer entirely. However, if someone asked me what my least favorite genre of music is, I would answer "hip-hop and rap" -- which was formed in New York City (in the Bronx) in the 1970's, so it is not the music of immigrants at all. (I looked it up.)
However, so as not to evade the issue, it seems to me that many Hispanics do enjoy playing Spanish/Mexican/Latin music at full volume, as do many lovers of rap and hip-hop music, and so I do willingly admit that "it disturbs me and I do not like that."
Last edited by katharsis; 11-03-2015 at 04:56 PM..
I was also referring to some towns requiring school children to dress conservatively so as not to offend their Muslim classmates or for restaurants to stop serving pork because it is against the religion of some, although, granted, these kinds of "accommodations" have not yet affected us in the U.S. Oh, wait, I
And, to repeat what I said earlier, I have NOTHING against any people of any race, religion, culture, or country of origin, as long as they don't interfere with my own culture.
I hear lots of loud and obnoxious rock in certain places, but I guess you wouldn't mind that as it is "American". Bottom line is it isn't just immigrants who might play loud music which mightn't be to the taste of others.
Should I tell the supermarket to turn off the rock/country music because I cannot stand it. Not every Americans goes for that type of noise.
As to this Islam nonsense. I live in NYC, which has a large and DIVERSE Muslim community. They merely demand the right to dress as they see appropriate, and most do not dress any different from any one else.
Again some disguise their bigotry and invent straw men as justify. There is no Muslim conspiracy to change US culture. In fact US culture is massively popular in most of these countries. Try a mall in Dubai.
BTW loads of people don't eat pork, or have restrictions from having pork in their environment, not just Muslims. Jews and even some types of Christians have similar dietary restrictions. Others are vegan so don't want their food to be contaminated with meat, etc.
However, so as not to evade the issue, it seems to me that many Hispanics do enjoy playing Spanish/Mexican/Latin music at full volume, as do many lovers of rap and hip-hop music, and so I do willingly admit that "it disturbs me and I do not like that."
And as happens in many shopping environments where rock and country is played at full volume. But you probably don't notice that.
It is standard practice in NYC for schools to be closed on major Jewish holidays, even when few of the students or staff or Jewish So why cannot Muslims request the same in a school with a significant Muslim population.
BTW there have been Muslims in the USA for centuries.
I hear lots of loud and obnoxious rock in certain places, but I guess you wouldn't mind that as it is "American". Bottom line is it isn't just immigrants who might play loud music which mightn't be to the taste of others.
Should I tell the supermarket to turn off the rock/country music because I cannot stand it. Not every Americans goes for that type of noise.
As to this Islam nonsense. I live in NYC, which has a large and DIVERSE Muslim community. They merely demand the right to dress as they see appropriate, and most do not dress any different from any one else.
Again some disguise their bigotry and invent straw men as justify. There is no Muslim conspiracy to change US culture. In fact US culture is massively popular in most of these countries. Try a mall in Dubai.
BTW loads of people don't eat pork, or have restrictions from having pork in their environment, not just Muslims. Jews and even some types of Christians have similar dietary restrictions. Others are vegan so don't want their food to be contaminated with meat, etc.
I did not claim that it is ONLY people who were not born in the U.S. play music "too loudly" in my opinion. I have also never claimed that my opinion is fact, and I acknowledge that many people think that the music that I think is too loud is not loud at all. It is opinion. Also, I am a child of the 60's, and so I am not saying it is any louder than the music I used to listen to (and sometimes still do). However, when I am driving to the stores closest to my neighborhood, when I hear music blasting from a nearby car, it usually either has a Spanish sound to it or else it is rap/hip-hop. Certainly not always, but usually. However, I would not even think of telling someone to turn it down unless she or he was in my home.
I also acknowledge that there have been Muslims in the country for at least decades, if not centuries, and the link I posted spoke for itself. I was appalled when I read that, but, of course, you are free to have a different opinion. I also recognize that many people don't eat pork, but I resent having any almost any custom favored by a minority forced on the majority. I am simply very tired of so many people crying "poor me" and demanding that everyone kowtow to them. Boo-hoo-hoo.
But all that being said, I do think that what was done to the Chinese, Japanese, Blacks, Native Americans, and many other groups in this country -- and the fact that many other innocent people in other countries were killed due to the U.S. government -- is absolutely shameful.
Seems like the biggest predictor of assimilation is the education level of the immigrant.
Higher skilled immigrants are more likely to speak English fluently, live in middle class neighborhoods and have lots of social connections outside of their immigrant group. The 2nd generation children basically fit right into the middle class. Sure, they usually maintain some cultural traditions, food, language use among family, etc. But, there generally aren't big challenges with integration. To the extent there are challenges, they are often dealing with intolerance from an ignorant minority of the "mainstream." (Racism/Xenophobia/Islamaphobia,etc).
The big integration challenges seem to be centered among lower skilled immigrants. They are significantly less likely to speak English and tend to join the working poor. Being poor they tend to have many of the same challenges the native-born working poor face: poverty and being relegated to the least desirable neighborhoods. These challenges tend to be transmitted across generation. While the 2nd generation almost always speaks English by time they are adults, the often grew up with all the issues associated with poverty: low educational achievement, early pregnancy, crime/gangs, below average earnings as adults. Of course, I'm generalizing, there are lots of exceptions to the average trends. But, most of the contentions issues surrounding "assimilation" are basically concerns about the fiscal costs: do middle/upper income folks subsidize poor immigrants in an attempt to minimize the social costs (California/NY model) or not and tolerate higher poverty/inequality of opportunity (Texas model).
I do realize, speaking English, can be of help in quickening the assimilation of immigrants, but that's only part of the assimilation process.
I just finished reading La Storia/5 Centuries of the Italian American Experience, and, on average, it took the 3rd generation to become all but assimilated.
When I lived in Minneapolis, they have brought over a number of Somalians, and even today, it doesn't appear that's they've assimilated, or wish to. My brother lived across the street from an apartment building full of these immigrants, and he'd find them throwing garbage bags outside their 3rd floor windows, as late as the early 90's, and still wearing their Burka's.
And how long will it take for the Syrian refugees expected to arrive here?
And is it really necessary for all of them to assimilate? And can we live with that?
American culture is really just an offshoot of British culture. So Brits assimilate the fastest. Look at how many are on tv, movies, and pop music.
Other Europeans assimilate the next fastest.
Latins with European blood are next cause of the Western Europe tie.
The rest you can flip a coin on.
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