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Seriously most everyone here is clueless about human behavior.
The problem is not having a gun. Anyone can have a gun on them, the problem is the wherewithal to actually shoot it at a person. People who are all "guns are the great equalizer, bla bla..." BULL CRAP! In a stressful, chaotic situation where person A is in control and and person B is panicking or frightened, person A could probably just walk up to person B, take their weapon and shoot them with it. As I said before, the normal human response to a shock like that is to freeze.
I was in the Army too.
I hated being issued the 9mm. I always wanted to carry an M-16 or M-4. If the s*** went down, that pistol was worthless, really hard to fire in any way accurately more than a few yards, especially not in a stressful situation. About the only situation a handgun can beat a rifle is if the rifle misfires, jams, or runs our of ammo and the rifleman is right in front of you.
So speaking as someone with a significant amount of military training - given the following conditions I could perhaps do something about a San Bernadino style attack. 1) Regular and recent marksmanship training - marksmanship is a skill that diminishes quickly without practice, like any sport. 2) Recent mass shooter training -- I would have to be mentally prepared (ie: not freeze), prepared to shoot in a chaotic, loud, distracting situation and would have to respond with a few seconds at most. Again, most people will freeze for at least a moment and at that point they're screwed. 3) Have a rifle on me - a handgun would not be much good unless I've got backup from other people with handguns (ie: the police).
Since I don't carry a rifle on me very often and I haven't had training in a few years, sorry, I won't be able to help.
I seriously doubt most of the commenters would either.
CCWs work in personal defense situations like burglaries or robberies because those are much slower events - unfolding over several minutes, usually with some indication of danger before that. You hear someone trying to jimmy open your window, you grab your gun and have it ready. You notice someone following you for the last block, you mentally prepare to draw your concealed weapon, etc...
Last edited by redguard57; 12-10-2015 at 04:27 PM..
The only time I would consider doing anything is if somehow I knew I was in a "no way out" scenario where I was dead anyways. And even then I have no idea if I could make that determination.
Seriously most everyone here is clueless about human behavior.
.
I'd have to go back and take a careful count, but I'm pretty sure most people who have responded in this thread have said they would not be Audie Murphy in this kind of situation.
If you're armed, drop to the floor. Get low and stay low. Take a deep breath and try to remain cool among the noise, smoke, and human shouts and screams. Remember that the confusion and panic works to your advantage, since you are armed and cooly seeking targets. Identify the bad guys by their foot movements and sound. Attempt to disable them by attacking at an angle, with rounds to their feet and legs. You can finish them off later. Do not attempt to stand until you are reasonably certain all assailants are either neutralized and/or disabled by pain. Locate and remove their weapons. Depending on circumstances, either finish them with a round in the temple or behind the ear, or secure them for questioning by law enforcement personnel.
To review, the key elements are, in order: keep cool, get on the floor and conceal yourself; locate and identify your target(s); disable them and deny them their weapons; finish them when practicable, or secure them for later interrogation.
The problem is not having a gun. Anyone can have a gun on them, the problem is the wherewithal to actually shoot it at a person. People who are all "guns are the great equalizer, bla bla..." BULL CRAP!
Agreed. I've said it before, anyone carrying a gun should be certain that they can and will use it should it become necessary. A person with a gun, who lacks the will to use it is more likely to end up dead quicker than anyone else.
I cannot give an honest answer to this "what if" question, most people who have not been trained and have experience with situations like this have no idea how they would react or what they would do at the time.
It is also an assumption that those who are trained and have experience would also react to the threat using their training.
That could be the one time they cannot react according to their training for one reason or another.
I'd have to go back and take a careful count, but I'm pretty sure most people who have responded in this thread have said they would not be Audie Murphy in this kind of situation.
Yes. I've actually been fairly impressed by the responses here, as most people are quite sensibly saying they'd rabbit if possible, or hide/barricade themselves if not, and fight only as an absolute last resort when every other option has failed. The few who've answered otherwise have stated they have significant military training (and I'm taking them on their word at that). Having combat experience does make some difference.
The one answer I thought was genuinely amusing was the OP's. I don't know if you saw it, but his first reply to my link post was along the lines of "Thanks! I'll read that." Well he evidently did, because he later edited that response to basically say "Wait! That doesn't fit my fantasy!" Sorry kid, but the Nairobi mall attack, the Paris attack at the Bataclan, the Chechen attack on that Russian school - that's what terrorist attacks look like when they're not being carried out by the Keystone Kops. And yes, there were only two "regular" people in the San Berniardino attack and they would have been nothing without their guns - but they HAD those guns, and their AR-15s were illegally modified to fire full auto. One CCW holder against two shooters armed with M-15s is simply no contest.
It's too bad that life isn't like the movies, for Jason Bourne would no doubt find a way to prevail even against those odds. Alas, in real life he's gong to be riddled full of holes, probably before he even manages to get off a shot. Real life's not fair.
One CCW holder against two shooters armed with M-15s is simply no contest.
I disagree. Maybe a 10% chance. Remember that the bad guys would confident that their victims were unarmed and terrified. Remember also that any weapon on full auto, for all its ferocity, does a superb job of identifying the whereabouts of its user. A skillful and trained handgun marksman might well be able to disable one or both black-clad fantasyland murderers, if he/she kept cool, remained concealed, and made the few shots available count. And a little luck would help, too. (Well, maybe more than a little. At any rate, it sure would beat lying there waiting to die.)
By the end of my tour in the infantry in Vietnam, I had pretty much eschewed the M-16 and took to carrying a .45 and a claymore bag full of wired frags. More than anything, I wanted my location concealed, and my ability to harm the enemy maximized without his knowing where the hell I was. Those red tracers were a death warrant for many GIs; likewise, the green ones presented the same risk to the VC and NVA...
CCWs work in personal defense situations like burglaries or robberies because those are much slower events - unfolding over several minutes...
Not all terrorist attacks go down like lightning. Particularly if it's a large space like a stadium or a mall, a person might be able to hear the attack commencing while the attackers are still some distance away, and if they can think and don't simply succumb to mindless panic, they may be able to implement a plan of action.
Of course, that depends on the person quickly recognizing the sound of gunfire in a place where he or she never expected to hear it... Even very experienced shooters don't always recognize that sound for what it is.
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