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I would protect myself, but smartly. This isn't a hollywood movie, and you can't outrun a bullet. So, would I try to stop the terrorist activity? Yes, but only if it did not involve risk to my person, or another innocent person.
Situation: terrorists have stormed the building. You just happen to have brought you weapon in with you. Bullets are flying, but you are barricaded into a "safe place". When bullets stop flying, you check your surroundings. If a clear shot at an armed terrorist was possible, I take the shot. I know that if my aim is off, it could be my life. But if the aim is true, I've stopped the madness. I feel good that I've served my fellow victims, and given justice well in advance of anything the court system could do.
That's a perfect situation obviously. Would be hard to expect that. But it's all I could come up with.
That sobering view is one thing, but there's a lot of blinding in the heat of the moment. "If I can just squeeze off a few rounds when they're not expecting it, I can get them" would probably be the strongest argument you can make for that scenario. And it's appealing. There's a good chance you'll have your head blown off, but you're not thinking that. You're thinking about how you'll be a hero. You'll be on the news across the country, saving X amount of lives. You'll be a celebrity locally and have the admiration of those around you. And so on.
It's a once in a lifetime chance to attain it all while doing "the right thing." A different type of lottery.
I'm not saying it's a good option. And if you've got family that's relying on you to get out alive, it's even more foolish. But if you don't have much else to live for, then there's little to be lost and a massive reward. Even if you die, you at least will be remembered well.
This thread made me think of the theater shooting in Paris last month. There were some big/tall men among the audience members. Couldn't some of those men have tackled the shooters down?
This thread made me think of the theater shooting in Paris last month. There were some big/tall men among the audience members. Couldn't some of those men have tackled the shooters down?
If they had moved, perhaps. But how many ordinary people mentally rehearse rushing TOWARD someone who's pointing a gun at them? How many of them visualize continuing that rush even as bullets are slamming into their bodies? Damned few - and because they have never imagined needing to do that, if the moment comes when that's actually the best survival move, their fear is likely to leave them standing there paralyzed. Deliberately moving TOWARD danger instead of away from it is a very unnatural act!
Also, there is the well-known Bystander Effect. Each person may be thinking "maybe we should rush the gunman," but everyone is waiting for someone else to make thaat first move - and so no one ends up moving.
If they had moved, perhaps. But how many ordinary people mentally rehearse rushing TOWARD someone who's pointing a gun at them? How many of them visualize continuing that rush even as bullets are slamming into their bodies? Damned few - and because they have never imagined needing to do that, if the moment comes when that's actually the best survival move, their fear is likely to leave them standing there paralyzed. Deliberately moving TOWARD danger instead of away from it is a very unnatural act!
Also, there is the well-known Bystander Effect. Each person may be thinking "maybe we should rush the gunman," but everyone is waiting for someone else to make thaat first move - and so no one ends up moving.
Yes. Unless you're trained otherwise, you see GUN and think nothing but "Gun!" for at least the first few moments. If you've given the situation enough previous thought, you may break out of that into another planned pattern, as you've said.
But if you've never thought through any "what if's" for the location and situation, "Gun!" is probably the last rational thought you will have.
This is the problem with propagandistic ideological demonization of things and people--it sets people up for the cessation of rational thought when real life brings you face-to-face with the demonized thing or person.
An observation made by my daughter: Men talk about "crapping my pants" while women talk about "peeing my pants."
Don't get me wrong, would LOVE to be "Rambo" but doubt I'd be in the "Perfect" location to be such.
Like being in a checkout line next to large knives, or screwdrivers and having the luck to have it pierce their eyes and rip their brains apart after I threw it.
Depends, if I have access to my firearms (concealed or otherwise) I'm going/would like to think, that I will try to lob rounds back. However, it's 10 guys with AK-47's blazing away, I'm looking for cover first, cell phone second, use a coooool head to give ACCURATE, CONCISE details of the battle underway to include ACCURATE descriptions of the shooters, dress, size, height, cars they are using to bolt, if any, firing patterns (how are they moving through the crowd), who the leader is if apparent, do they have explosives one can see, tempo of the fight (Are they running and simply spraying and praying or, taking cover methodically and moving through the battle ground with tactics), constantly scan for 2-3 escape routes from covered position, if available, have my ccw at the ready should the momentum come my way.
Oh, and say the Lord's prayer over and over and over again along with a few "mercy me Christ" chants for good measure. I might also ask for the mythical God called Allah to take a look at some of his current misguided flock and ask that a gun or two jam. Sure, it's a long shot but, what do you have to lose at that point.
If you can't engage, at least try to report from cover. Your info, if delivered in a relatively calm manner may save OTHER lives that may be nearby as well as first responders. If you are at cover with another person or two, have them keep vigilant eyes as you continue to evade to better cover or escape entirely. No matter, you should be able to lend assistance, however slight and apparently meaningless at the time, to help LEO in the near term and perhaps in the long term as they escape....namely, which way did they go, with whom, firing?, etc...etc...etc.....
GD it, TRY!
If no CCW is available and you have no choice but to fight, LOOK FOR WEAPONS OF OPPORTUNITY!!! Heavy desk tools, "Milton's" Red Stapler, keyboards, heck, an LCD monitor, heavy books, printer, whatever....just don't sit down and die.....chances are if YOU do your part, others may try to join in....it only takes 3-4 committed office workers fighting back to get others to join the melee and increase the momentum, and odds of survival, in YOUR favors collectively?
Running only encourages more rounds coming your way. All you will do is die tired. Much like an ambush, it's better to attack the ambush than to run from it. Casualties will/would abound but, imagine if you had 100 pissed off workers coming at 3-4 idiots spraying the place with heavy objects. If they can overpower only 1 or 2 it will change the dynamic of the fight exponentially.
Some could/would grab the terrorists weapons and now the game has changed (provided one or two actually know how to use them). One thing is for sure, the terrorist is probably NOT going to survive the counter-attack and the taxpayers save a fortune in jail, lawyer, and court costs. Sure, we might give up some intel but, you can save those questions for the OTHER guys when you or someone catches them.
Bottom line? Depending on the fight and how closed quarter you are, you need to make a decision but, above ALL, you must move quickly. The odds of survival change by the second in this circumstance and those that react (fight OR flee) stand the best chances of survival overall. Sitting there accomplishes nothing other than offering real good simulations for the guys shooting at you. In essence, target practice.
Had someone, anyone, had a few handguns in the Paris attack, in the auditorium and simply started lobbing rounds towards the gunmen, it would have caused them to at least flinch, cover, or move and THAT simple action WOULD have created small windows of opportunity for others to flee. That in and of itself would have been a game changer in the body count.
Now, imagine if merely 10 had the same opportunity. It might have reduced the number of dead to less than a 100. To think that guns can't save people is absolutely ludicrous. One merely needs to look at YouTube and watch videos of bad guys being taken down by law abiding citizens in robberies.
It makes me shudder to think how quickly those folks in Paris were murdered. If we continue to sit and take it only emboldens the enemy. A few folks with firearms, properly trained, can change the dynamics of small confrontations very quickly. Now add a public that is say, 10% armed at any given time and it's reasonable to assume that under almost any circumstance, the odds improve with those being assailed.
Perfect? Not even close. But, right now it's open season on the innocent with no tag needed and nooooo limits on how many they can kill. Do you think it's time we at least, fight back?
I like how this guy thinks!! Don't sit down and die!!! FIGHT!
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