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Old 12-30-2015, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,530 posts, read 8,873,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
I don't think this is spoken about enough. But when we break down economic systems, it seems quite obvious to me that socialism seems to promote a slave mindset more so than any other economic system. How so, I'll explain...


A slave is subserviant, never questions authority, feels that is purpose is to serve a master, and has no say so about his path in life. The basis of slavery is basically lack of choice. Slavery will and will always be the absence of freedom, and the core property of freedom is most certainly choice. It doesn't matter how much that single option is, if you can't choose an alternative, then you are bound to it.


Slavery is a system that you can't really opt out of. And when I say "opt out" I literally mean that you can't really choose not to be a slave. It is your master that decides to free you or not. You can't "quit".


I want to be very specific of these guidelines, as people often try to extend the meaning of slavery, when it's fairly concrete what it is.


Socialism is a system in which allegedly the people control the means of production. This is the theory behind it, but the reality is that a group of people and organizations supposedly represent the "people". People opt into a system or service, but there is little choice in opting out. There isn't an alternative, there is just hope through a process that things may change. But people as individuals can't really influence the structure of the service in any meaningful way.


This is akin to slavery in some respect. But one has to look at examples of slavery. One will say that capitalism promotes slavery even more than socialism. But if we look at history, slavery is bound by laws. Laws that made it illegal for slaves to exercise any choice. Law and government was designed to keep slavery instituted. This means slavery, and the act of slavery was a central institution, enforcable by law. If slavery were the Will of the slave owner, an escape slave could not be punished because it could not be enforced. So law was a crucial part in sustaining slavery.


But structurally is slavery socialistic? I believe so. The more socialism you have, the less choice you have. To the point where on the spectrum of socialism, socialism is closer to slavery. The key is the lack of choice. And one can look at slavery in this way. Slaves generally had clothes, shelter, and food. But they were still slaves. The key is they never had a choice of food, a choice of clothes, or a choice of shelter. Nor could they never choose not to have these things. It was forced upon them.


I believe that it is economic miseducation that capitalism is often considered an enabler of slavery. Been in reality the power in slavery was due to it's centralize government enforced mandates.
Slaves are unarmed.
Free people have weapons.
Capitalism or Socialism is NOT the deciding factor.
I am amazed that such a fundamental principle is not universally recognized in our "free" society.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:21 PM
 
7,580 posts, read 5,333,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
Socialism is a system in which allegedly the people control the means of production. This is the theory behind it, but the reality is that a group of people and organizations supposedly represent the "people". People opt into a system or service, but there is little choice in opting out. There isn't an alternative, there is just hope through a process that things may change. But people as individuals can't really influence the structure of the service in any meaningful way.
Ownership of the means of production is not behind it, it is the sine qua non of socialist theories. As for the "reality" well the reality that you speak of is based solely upon a Marxist-Leninist formulation of socialism that calls for a vanguard party to "guide" a socialist nation. However, I hasten to point out, the Marxist-Leninist formulation is but one conception of socialism.
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Old 12-31-2015, 04:13 AM
 
5,907 posts, read 4,437,936 times
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"My name is Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?"No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.'

In the end, what separates a man from a Slave? Money? Power? NO. A man chooses, a slave obeys.

In 1919 I fled a country that had traded in despotism for insanity. The Marxist Revolution simply traded one lie for another. Instead of one man, the Czar, owning the work of all the people, ALL the people owned the work of all of the people. And so, I came to America, where a man could own his own work ... where a man could benefit from the brilliance of his own mind, the strength of his own muscles, the MIGHT of his own will.

I had THOUGHT I had left the parasites of Moscow behind me. I had THOUGHT I had left the Marxist altruists to their collective farms and their five-year plans. But, as the German fools threw themselves on Hitler's sword for the good of the Reich, the Americans drank deeper and deeper of the bolshevik poison, spoon-fed to them by Roosevelt and his New Dealers.

And so, I asked myself, in what country was there a place for men like me? Men who refused to say yes to the parasites and the doubters. Men who believed that work was sacred and property rights inviolate. And then one day the happy answer came to me, my friends: there was NO country for people like me. And THAT was the moment I decided ... to build one."


What is the greatest lie ever created? What is the most vicious obscenity ever perpetrated on mankind? Slavery ... the Holocaust ... dictatorship ... NO! It's the tool with which all that wickedness is built. Altruism.

Whenever anyone wants others to do their work, they call upon their altruism. "Never mind your own needs," they say, "think of the needs of ..." of ... whoever. Of the state. Of the poor. Of the army. Of the king. Of God. The list goes on and on.

How many catastrophes were launched with the words "think of yourself"? It's the "king and country" crowd who light the torch of destruction. It is this great inversion, this ancient lie, which has chained humanity to an endless cycle of guilt and failure."
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Old 12-31-2015, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
1,248 posts, read 824,983 times
Reputation: 1915
^ If you want to think of yourself and only of yourself, you are free to move some place to the wilderness, raise your own crops, hunt your own game and fully provide for yourself. And you will have to get off the internet too, since it is brought to you by other people. And hope you wil never get a serious illness other people will have to treat.

Humans are social animals, they MUST think of the needs of others in order to survive. That's how it's been from the beginning of time. The modern American individualism is a fruit of an affluent, pampered society. As soon as something happens to that society (and it will happen sooner or later) it will be all for one and one for all again. A dog-eat-dog world eventually destroys itself.
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:18 AM
 
5,907 posts, read 4,437,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norne View Post
^ If you want to think of yourself and only of yourself, you are free to move some place to the wilderness, raise your own crops, hunt your own game and fully provide for yourself. And you will have to get off the internet too, since it is brought to you by other people. And hope you wil never get a serious illness other people will have to treat.

Humans are social animals, they MUST think of the needs of others in order to survive. That's how it's been from the beginning of time. The modern American individualism is a fruit of an affluent, pampered society. As soon as something happens to that society (and it will happen sooner or later) it will be all for one and one for all again. A dog-eat-dog world eventually destroys itself.



If you want to jump to a bunch of assumptions feel free to....


Those little things around the speech "" are called quotation marks. It means I'm quoting someone else's words. In this case, the insane character from a popular work. The op's post reminded me of Andrew Ryan. It doesn't mean I believe it, chief.
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:38 AM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,352,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
Slaves are unarmed.
Free people have weapons.
Capitalism or Socialism is NOT the deciding factor.
I am amazed that such a fundamental principle is not universally recognized in our "free" society.
You may have a great collection of guns at home, but if you must work for the boss to put food on the table you are not entirely free. Yeah, you have the freedom to find another boss (or master) to work for, but you are not truly free. If you don't toil everyday you will sink and drown. You must keep your feet and arms moving to keep your head above water. Do you truly believe that is freedom?
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:40 AM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,352,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norne View Post
A dog-eat-dog world eventually destroys itself.
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:46 AM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,352,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
In the end, what separates a man from a Slave? Money? Power? NO. A man chooses, a slave obeys.
A slave has no choice and must toil away everyday to eat.

A free man has the choice to change masters, but must also toil away everyday to eat.

SOME FREEDOM!


Quote:
Whenever anyone wants others to do their work, they call upon their altruism. "Never mind your own needs," they say, "think of the needs of ..." of ... whoever. Of the state. Of the poor. Of the army. Of the king. Of God. The list goes on and on.
Altruism is often a philosophy with a hidden secondary motive. Ayn Rand is correct!
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:50 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,840 posts, read 9,209,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
Slaves are unarmed.
Free people have weapons.
Capitalism or Socialism is NOT the deciding factor.
I am amazed that such a fundamental principle is not universally recognized in our "free" society.
Sorry, sweetpea, but slaves are owned by others. Their children are owned. Socialism doesn't embrace owning people. Capitalism embraced it for centuries and still embraces it.
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Old 12-31-2015, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,928,064 times
Reputation: 18713
Of course socialism encourages slavery. America used to have freedom, freedom to own your own farm, work at a company or quit and do something else, work for someone else. Freedom to own your own home etc. But in socialist countries, they take your money away and give it to someone else. So working people get to support themselves and other people also. That's the system we have now. The working people are enslaved to support the lazy, the old, irresponsible, etc. But eventually, the socialist system taps all the money available, and there's no more to distribute around, and the system dies. That's the direction we're headed with 19Trillion in Fed. debt.
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